Suggestions please on groups spreading

[Steelfingers]

Ruger American Predator 6.5 creedmoor. 1 moa groups or at 100 yards out of the box. Flimsy factory stock (I hate). Replaced trigger with Timney and attached an Odin Atlas comp. Glass is good, rings are good but may have caused some issues with vising down stock when attaching comp. Don't know.
I doubt the comp is the issue. Going to take it apart tomorrow and
see if the barrel is touching or from my lazy ass (using a vise with barrel in it) caused a torque on the stock.
I would like to blame it on the ammo because I testing some new Hornady balck box 140 grain, but the groups opened up when I was shooting the Hornady match 120 grain. First box, great. Second box, after adding trigger and comp, crap.
Suggestions appreciated. Planned to drop the works into a LSS Chassis but not so sure now. Might just go with a Boyds At one.
Does anyone think it might be copper fouling? I don't like using copper or any wire brush on my barrels and tend to run cleaner and patches mostly for the carbon. Ballistol is my go to and hoppes.
Suggestions appreciated.

 

[msinc]

I could not get decent groups out of my Ruger American until I lead lapped the barrel. Barrel was pretty rough and it copper fouled the more it was shot. Sounds like what you are describing. Clean it real good it would tighten the best groups to about 1" to 1 1/4" then go shoot it would open to about 3" or so.
Lead lapped the bore and it grouped better and didn't foul. I did a thread on how to lead lap a barrel in the gunsmithing section at the very bottom. I found it and bumped it to the first page so you can find it easy. Might want to take a look. Good luck.

Edit: I also went with a Timney trigger and I knew I had to get rid of that rubber stock. I went with a Boyd's. You probably want to rectify the factory stock before you go worrying too much about the barrel. It just so happened that I had a rough one with some flaws and tight spots. Many people report great results with their barrels and a very good looking bore. Also, to be clear...I removed my barrel when I lapped it, but this can be done on the action no problem. I cut an eleven degree crown on mine when I was done, that's why it was removed.

 

[Steelfingers]

Thanks. I was getting frustrated. Did the Boyds stock help? I was looking at the At one.
This gun shot so well right out of the box. Copper fouling was mentioned but no mentioned lead lapping.
Where can I find your thread? I can't seem to find it.

 

[Steelfingers]

Found it. Thanks

 

[msinc]

Thanks. I was getting frustrated. Did the Boyds stock help? I was looking at the At one.
This gun shot so well right out of the box. Copper fouling was mentioned but no mentioned lead lapping.
Where can I find your thread? I can't seem to find it.

Yes sir, the Boyd's stock was a definite improvement. I have the Ruger American, so I just got the Prairie Hunter stock. Mine was kind of a pain because you have to first glass in the action blocks and then have at it again to do the full glass bedding {that is if you want a full glass bed}. The other thing with mine was that they sent a plastic piece for the front of the magazine to latch onto and I ended up making a new on out of aluminum. The plastic thing kind of crushed and wouldn't get tight...solid metal fixed that issue.
Bottom line is that there are all kinds of stocks out there and it's really whatever you like, but anything is better than the factory in this case. Bottom one is the Ruger I have:

 

[Steelfingers]

Thanks. That is beautiful. That's why I like the Boyds. They just look great.
Took my rifle to the range today to see if it was truly my stock and yes it is.
Put it on a lead sled solo where I could position the front rest just fore of the mag.
Groups improved by leaps and bounds until the barrel started to heat up.
Here's a picture. Not great but a lot better than yesterday. I was debating if the comp or the ammo I was shooting was the cause but felt it was the crap stock.
Shooting the Hornady Black box 140 grain creedmoor at 100 yards with very slight wind.
If I went with the LSS no bedding would be required but the difference in the two stocks, is about 200 bucks.
The Lss is suppose to defuse heat better as well.
First picture is todays results starting with center, right top, right bottom and left bottom (hot barrel).

 

[T-shooter]

Thanks. That is beautiful. That's why I like the Boyds. They just look great.
Took my rifle to the range today to see if it was truly my stock and yes it is.
Put it on a lead sled solo where I could position the front rest just fore of the mag.
Groups improved by leaps and bounds until the barrel started to heat up.
Here's a picture. Not great but a lot better than yesterday. I was debating if the comp or the ammo I was shooting was the cause but felt it was the crap stock.
Shooting the Hornady Black box 140 grain creedmoor at 100 yards with very slight wind.
If I went with the LSS no bedding would be required but the difference in the two stocks, is about 200 bucks.
The Lss is suppose to defuse heat better as well.
First picture is todays results starting with center, right top, right bottom and left bottom (hot barrel).

View attachment 1010693

Glad to hear it helped. I put a Boyd's stock on my Savage which had a flimsy factory plastic stock. I glass bedded the action and relieved the entire barrel channel. Pillar bedding would be better but that's a project for another day. Thin barrels move around and I don't believe the thickness of a dollar bill (about .005") is enough to ensure it doesn't hit. I have probably at least .080" at the front. A muzzle brake also tamed the rifle down. I believe in them and even use one on an AR15 which has next to no recoil but it does help to stay on target.

Ammo makes all the difference in the world. Some rifles are very sensitive to certain loads. Years ago when I was breaking in the barrel using factory ammo, Hornady Z-Max 168g shot an inch at 100 yards. I got PPU match 168g to group at 3/4". At the same time Winchester 150g S/P managed 2 inches, while Fiocchi 147g did about a 4" group as did Magtech 147g M-80 ball. That was before I started reloading.

 

[Steelfingers]

Glad to hear it helped. I put a Boyd's stock on my Savage which had a flimsy factory plastic stock. I glass bedded the action and relieved the entire barrel channel. Pillar bedding would be better but that's a project for another day. Thin barrels move around and I don't believe the thickness of a dollar bill (about .005") is enough to ensure it doesn't hit. I have probably at least .080" at the front. A muzzle brake also tamed the rifle down. I believe in them and even use one on an AR15 which has next to no recoil but it does help to stay on target.

Ammo makes all the difference in the world. Some rifles are very sensitive to certain loads. Years ago when I was breaking in the barrel using factory ammo, Hornady Z-Max 168g shot an inch at 100 yards. I got PPU match 168g to group at 3/4". At the same time Winchester 150g S/P managed 2 inches, while Fiocchi 147g did about a 4" group as did Magtech 147g M-80 ball. That was before I started reloading.

Thanks T. I appreciate the reply. I contacted Boyd's about a few things on the At one and customer service is less than stellar at Boyd's.
I'm going to dremel the stock Friday and start looking at options like filling the square chambered areas in the lower fore end with epoxy or something else that will add some rigidity.
If you have any suggestions, please forward them. I'm in unfamiliar area with the composite stocks and the 6.5 in general.

 

[DumpHollow]

Steelfingers, you might want to try the 6.5 CREEDMOOR website. There's a lot of Ruger advocates over there.

 

[DHuffman]

Steelfingers, you might want to try the 6.5 CREEDMOOR website. There's a lot of Ruger advocates over there.

LOL

 

[DHuffman]

View attachment 1011419
Not a big fan of the site. Too many snobs. I actually shoot and hunted since I could shoulder a single shot 22. If you ask a question, over there, that's not steeped in quantum mechanics and the curvature of the earth, they ignore or rip you.
Not for me but thanks for the suggestion.
Ordered the Boyd's At One a few minutes ago.
Went to the range today, with better results. Trimmed a bit of the inside of the stock that was also touching on the under side.
Here's today's results with the Hornady black box 140 at 100 yards and no wind.
First three rounds top left. Adjusted scope as reflected in low left. Another adjustment and 3 rounds top right with more concentration on trigger control. Center is the best group.
Bottom left is just working on trigger control.

I'm familiar with your experience over on the 6.5creedmoor site. I'm a regular there, saw your posts and find the opposite to be true. I must have missed you getting "ripped on". I have noticed lately a huge influx of noobs over there that are new to the cartridge quick to tell some of the old members all the things they're wrong about. I know I spend more time pm'ing members over there now to talk to the old crew I know versus having to deal with all the responses from the new guys who may or may not just be speculating.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

The Boyd's At One looks nice, I hadn't saw one yet until now. Should be a huge step in the right direction.

 

[DHuffman]

Quite a few of my internet ramblings go unanswered also but whatever, a lot of things have been covered thousands of times already and people get tired of hashing out the same old stuff. Usually a quick search on most forums is way faster than waiting on responses to a new thread. IMHO

 

[Nature Boy]

Ammo makes all the difference in the world. Some rifles are very sensitive to certain loads. Years ago when I was breaking in the barrel using factory ammo, Hornady Z-Max 168g shot an inch at 100 yards. I got PPU match 168g to group at 3/4". At the same time Winchester 150g S/P managed 2 inches, while Fiocchi 147g did about a 4" group as did Magtech 147g M-80 ball

Have you ever tried the ZQ1 brand in .308? It's staggeringly bad. So inaccurate it's almost entertaining. Might be OK for shooting in the air on new years eve but I'm afraid I'd miss the sky