Suggestions for 6ppc load

[Schandler]

I have a sako vixen with hart 14 twist barrel shooting Berger FB column 64gr and 220 Russian brass 205 primers with 27gr 322 and as close to lands as i can get 2.222 col and still has a jump. Cleaned barrel very well and shot a few rounds before this load. Solid rest front and rear and no wind at 100 yards. When i first bought the rifle it was one small hole with first loads with same recipe. I did get a new fx scale to weigh with. That’s the only change i can think of and i really haven’t shot the rifle very much due to lack of time. Now i want to get it back to smaller group and looking for suggestions - trying to save a few primers and powder !! With a few suggestions from you fellas Thanks

 

[Schandler]

I would like to add these 5 shots have a longer col than previous because i was trying for less jump searching for smaller group. I’ve read ppc likes to be touching but unless i find right bullet then it will have to have a jump. 266 bushing and i have 133 benchmark 8208 and a lot of other powders not tried that i could if suggested. Also have 100 new Norma brass that i haven’t used and lots of different primers other than 205’s. Also when i pulled rifle out week ago and it shot like crap - the target looked like this one also. More horizontal problem than vertical. I’ve put feelers out for different bullet but most tell i should be good with the columns

 

[dgeesaman]

In my experience you won’t get most bullets (if any) to touch the lands in a Sako PPC and if you do, it will be with so little engagement in the neck that your neck tension will be very light. My Lapua brass is also about .020 shorter than Norma or Sako so that doesn’t help either.

I’d focus on making sure the barrel is clean and running an extended seating depth test as well as powder test.

Have you changed bullet lots? My one factory 6PPC Sako was quite lot sensitive. It would love one lot of a bullet but then the next batch I’d buy would be ordinary. I’m starting to buy my 6mm bullets by the thousand so that I can enjoy a well developed load for a while. The downside is I need to have several thousand bullets on hand to find a good tune sometimes.

 

[JEFFPPC]

In my experience you won’t get most bullets (if any) to touch the lands in a Sako PPC and if you do, it will be with so little engagement in the neck that your neck tension will be very light. My Lapua brass is also about .020 shorter than Norma or Sako so that doesn’t help either.

I’d focus on making sure the barrel is clean and running an extended seating depth test as well as powder test.

Have you changed bullet lots? My one factory 6PPC Sako was quite lot sensitive. It would love one lot of a bullet but then the next batch I’d buy would be ordinary. I’m starting to buy my 6mm bullets by the thousand so that I can enjoy a well developed load for a while. The downside is I need to have several thousand bullets on hand to get a good tune sometimes.

I think you missed the small print Hart barrel. It will depend on the reamer used when it was rebarreled. I would try a different bullet or perhaps check some basics like case length or possible carbon ring. If you have not shot it for a while are you using them same lot of powder? Lots of things to explore.

 

[LaMan]

My only experience with ppc's is with custom action competition rifles but none of my rifles shoot well at touch. You changed your tune by changing the col., go back to that length and change seating depth by very small amounts, even .001 can make a difference. Also hope your measuring seating depth by base to ogive and not overall length. Another thing give n133 a serious try, it is still the powder for ppc. Wind flags will also help you see if there is really "no wind", sometimes that is the worst condition to shoot in, ask me how I know.

 

[johara1]

Are you using wind flags ? it looks like a weather report..... jim

 

[GTyner]

how about the outdoor temp to cold

 

[dgeesaman]

I think you missed the small print Hart barrel. It will depend on the reamer used when it was rebarreled. I would try a different bullet or perhaps check some basics like case length or possible carbon ring. If you have not shot it for a while are you using them same lot of powder? Lots of things to explore.

That’s true the chamber could be anywhere but if he can’t touch the lands the problem is the same.

David

 

[AlNyhus]

Start at the start.

Provided you know for sure where the bullet is relative to the lands...and if it shot better with more bullet in the case neck before...just back the bullet up.

Wind flags are a must. There is always stuff moving out there. -Al

 

[JEFFPPC]

David, I have never heard anyone with a throat too long to find the lads with a PPC, well up until now that is.His groups are round, good sign, I would approach it like a new barrel forgetting what use to work and start over and exploring a bullet that is a bit longer.

 

[LHSmith]

I would stick with H-322. N-133 requires a too much of a learning curve to stay on top of. H-322 likes cooler temps, so be aware as we get into summer temps. Ditto on windflags, better to shoot when you have "like" ( the same) conditions- no conditions are problematic. Since you have not shot for awhile -did you remember to adjust for parallax? Sit behind the scope for a few minutes and observe if mirage could be the culprit.

 

[Ccrider]

How often and how do you clean? Did you make the ammo that shot one hole?

If everything is the same except the scale, go back and use your old scale and see if that helps. Orcheck your old scale with your fx and see if it is weighing the same.

If the old load was in tune, I would work with the charge moving up in increments or down in increments depending on whether the old load was at the bottom or top of the tune window.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but it looks like something else is going on other than load tune. Even if out of tune I would not expect that group. Others may say different, but out of tune for a custom ppc is maybe .5, not 1.5. At least, that is my experience.

 

[LHSmith]

FWIW- A 5 mph "wind" (actually called light breeze by meteorologists per the Beaufort Scale- look it up) will deflect your load almost 1/2" at 100. If you had reversals in the time you shot then double that deflection to a total of 1".
A "light breeze" will barely be felt on your face.
Windflags are the best way to save on wasted use of components and your time. Simple survey ribbons will go a long way towards this goal.

 

[Schandler]

I have flags about every 30 yards - not enough breeze to move the ribbon or spin the props and mirage very little using nf nxs 12-42 . I did compare old scales to new ones and was surprised less than .01 grain off with old scale. I don’t have anything to measure olive to base. I’ve been using the Hornady tool to find seating depth on bullet BUT i didn’t have the threaded case for 6ppc so i ordered and it will be here friday. I will back off lands some and start over with powder charge and see what happens. I wish i had a 13 twist but i don’t so i will work with what i have. So will stick with 322 and columns. How much bullet is ideal to have in brass regardless of jump or touching lands. The ammo i loaded first is same ammo i shot this time. I’ve actually pulled bullets on the 20 that was left and will start over. I know it was mentioned about the Norma being a little shorter but i may load a few of them with varying loads of 322 just to see if it makes any difference. With the Russian brass i did notice some residue on the necks after firing. Not a hot load with 27. So i will bump up .3 steps and move back off lands and post results. Fellas i appreciate the input here. Kind of discouraging because i thought once i found the load it i would be good. Never expected 6ppc to be so finicky. One thing i didn’t think about was temp - it’s much cooler now than when i shot rifle so is 322 real temp sensitive ?? I will start up with the powder charge this time around - will post. Thanks again

 

[Schandler]

Also wanted to ask is varget too slow for ppc ? I’ve never seen it listed in favorite loads listed but always wanted to ask

 

[Ccrider]

Change one thing at a time.

 

[AlNyhus]

My suggestions for what it's worth...in order:

-Using the stripped bolt method, find the lands. Polish the bullet with 0000 steel wool to help see them.
-Move the bullet back in .005 increments until the lands mark just disappear. 0000 steel wool each time.
-When the marks just disappear, this as your 'touch' length. Record it.
-From the 'touch length', shorten the seater stem .010. You are now .010 'into' the rifling.
-From this point, start with a lower powder charge. Go up by .5 grs. at a time until it shoots the smallest.
-At that powder charge...move your bullet back .005 at a time and shoot again until it shoots.

When you go to another powder, repeat the process. Always start with the bullet .010 'in'. This way, you only have one way to go with the seating depth.

It's also important to clean the barrel when you change powders. After cleaning, fire a couple of foulers with the powder you going to try.

Hope this helps -Al

 

[LHSmith]

I have flags about every 30 yards - not enough breeze to move the ribbon or spin the props and mirage very little using nf nxs 12-42 . I did compare old scales to new ones and was surprised less than .01 grain off with old scale. I don’t have anything to measure olive to base. I’ve been using the Hornady tool to find seating depth on bullet BUT i didn’t have the threaded case for 6ppc so i ordered and it will be here friday. I will back off lands some and start over with powder charge and see what happens. I wish i had a 13 twist but i don’t so i will work with what i have. So will stick with 322 and columns. How much bullet is ideal to have in brass regardless of jump or touching lands. The ammo i loaded first is same ammo i shot this time. I’ve actually pulled bullets on the 20 that was left and will start over. I know it was mentioned about the Norma being a little shorter but i may load a few of them with varying loads of 322 just to see if it makes any difference. With the Russian brass i did notice some residue on the necks after firing. Not a hot load with 27. So i will bump up .3 steps and move back off lands and post results. Fellas i appreciate the input here. Kind of discouraging because i thought once i found the load it i would be good. Never expected 6ppc to be so finicky. One thing i didn’t think about was temp - it’s much cooler now than when i shot rifle so is 322 real temp sensitive ?? I will start up with the powder charge this time around - will post. Thanks again

A quick tool to measure Ogive -to -base can be made from an empty .38/.357 case or any cartridge case that will put the case mouth on the PPC shoulder- just knock-out the primer and square and chamfer the case mouth of the case used as a gauge.
Some soot on the case mouth can be typical even on well tuned loads.
IME H-322 is pretty dependable up to temps around 90.'

 

[R.Morehouse]

Check the torque on your scope & action......

Regards
Rick