Suggestion on bedding Savage LRPV with H-S Precision Stock?

[RonAKA]

I am about to bed this rifle using Devcon Plastic Steel putty. For those with experience in bedding this rifle or the H-S Precision synthetic stock with the aluminum bedding block, do you have any suggestions? Be sure to do? Don't do? This is what it looks like:

My thoughts are to leave the recoil lug area alone. It is already metal to metal, and I'm not sure how I can improve it. The stock is clear of the action above the aluminum fitting block, and I will bed this area to fill the gap including over the aluminum block. The synthetic material is quite rough with a flat finish, so I think the Devcon will stick well. Not sure about the tang area? The three action screws are right at or in the aluminum block, so there is no firm attachment to the stock back at the tang.

Plan to use the action screw torque to put a fair, but less than normal torque to distribute the Devcon, then tape it with black electricians tape, and then let most of the tension out of the action screws to be sure the action is not stressed while the Devcon sets up.

I've bedded a Savage Rimfire BTVS before , and this LRPV looks much easier due to the aluminum bedding block already being there, and no magazine to work around.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

 

[15Tango]

I've done a few Devcon action jobs now and you're doing it right pretty much. Personally I'd apply it inside the recoil lug as well, it'll help with forward movement and twisting - upon firing there's torque being applied and the round action doesn't resist that well.

You're doing right with the action screws making sure they're not tight during curing, leave at least one in for twist alignment during curing.

Other than that, throw the Kiwi shoe polish on, not many sounds as satisfying as hearing that crack while separating the action from the stock after curing.

Post some after pictures!

Wayne

 

[jo191145]

Yep, bed the lug. Whats the chance they both mate perfectly now?

Tape the edges of the lug with several layers and the front of the lug also. Thats a standard bedding job. A handful of folks bed the entire lug except for the bottom.

You can use the screws for alignment. Do not tighten them at all!!! Electrical tape or surgical tubing is the stuff. I found engine studs at Ace Hardware that fit the Savage action. Tape em up screw em in and they slide right through the stock during bedding. No messin around aligning screws from the bottom. I would'nt bed without them now.

You'll need to shim the barrel off the forearm otherwise all that weight will force you to overcome it at the action.


Make sure you smear a little extra "shoe polish, car wax" up into the joint between the lug and the action. That lug alignment screw is a little low on the target action and can mess up your day.

 

[RonAKA]

I've done a few Devcon action jobs now and you're doing it right pretty much. Personally I'd apply it inside the recoil lug as well, it'll help with forward movement and twisting - upon firing there's torque being applied and the round action doesn't resist that well.

Wayne, thanks for your suggestions. You make a good point about the round action having no real resistance to twisting. If I try to address that at the recoil lug (the only obvious place), it would suggest no tape on the side of the lugs. What are the chances I can get the barrel/action out if I only use Kiwi wax on the sides? Should I be taking pre-bids to purchase a glue in?

 

[RonAKA]

You'll need to shim the barrel off the forearm otherwise all that weight will force you to overcome it at the action.

Am I correct in thinking you are concerned about the weight of the heavy barrel pulling down without the action screws in place? The method I followed on the rimfire is to clamp the barrel in a Workmate, and actually put the whole gun upside down while the Devcon sets up. That takes the weight of the barrel/action out of the picture. It also lets the Devcon flow down towards the action instead of away. This flow down perhaps is more of a feel good than a real effect.

Also interested in your thoughts on using the sides of the recoil lug to resist twisting? i.e. not using tape and only Kiwi wax to make it a close fit? Not looking to posting a WTS Savage LRPV glue in advert...

 

[jo191145]

Ron

Have to admit I've never used Devcon. I started with using conventional bedding kits. Was'nt entirely pleased with the durability of most of them. Once I tried JB Weld I stopped looking.
I would have to quess JB Weld is a little runnier than Devcon. I can't imagine attempting to bed with JB upside down. It would be a mess.

JMO
I doubt you need to tightly bed the side of the lugs on your LRPV. Bedding the sides may make sense in some heavy recoiling cartridges with fast twist barrels.
I personally have never bedded the sides or front of the lug. My Savage action based guns will run right alongside full custom guns and quite often whoop on em.

I was visiting a Savage smith some years ago. He showed me the bedding job he was doing on a Sav with a huge 50 BMG barrel on it. He bedded the chamber, all four sides of the lug, receiver and the tang.
Being a green punk I simply stated everyone knows your not supposed to bed a Sav like that.
He smiled and said "I know, I've been doing it this way since the beginning and have never had a problem doing so.
Seeing the wood and trophies on his walls there was no way I could doubt his credentials. Moral of the story, theres always two ways to skin a cat.

This smith also made it clear. Never bed the bottom of a recoil lug. That will cause lots of trouble.
Everything else is fair game I quess.

I've had a few scares getting an action out of bedding. Usually a result of expierimenting with different release agents.
I've heard Devcon shrinks a little on curing making removal a little easier. JB on the other hand is not supposed to shrink at all.

A few tips. Make sure theres no burrs on the lug that might catch. Especially if you decide to bed the sides.

If your a barrel swapper loosen the nut just a tad. Not loose but not tight. You want that lug tight to the action. If the action does get locked in you can remove the barrel using a barrel vise. This may help get it out. BTW never bed the nut either.

If not heat will melt the bedding. Time to start over after that.

 

[15Tango]

Ron,

I don't know if you've read or seen this before but it's a great tutorial http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html. In that article Richard Franklin did the entire lug all around but taped it off on the edge (step 4), that's probably the way to go the way I'd go. If you're worried about the results at the lug for some reason you can always grind whatever portion back out - Devcon machines well.

Devcon doesn't shrink and it works great upside down or however. Kiwi is the agent to use as well, I use the clear to keep it from staining anything - the thinner you put it on the better as it'll make the match up that much better. I know it's scary the first time, but the Kiwi won't let you down, that lug will come right out.

Wayne

 

[jo191145]

Wayne

Good video. I'll stand corrected about Devcon shrinking.
Actually I have a couple rifles that could use a rebedding job. I think I'll try Devcon this time around.

 

[15Tango]

The stuff's not cheap but nothing worth having in our hobby really is. I bought mine on Amazon For $39.99 http://www.amazon.com/Devcon-10110-Lb-Plastic-Steel/dp/B002KGKH8M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1284133058&sr=8-1

Wayne

 

[RonAKA]

Thanks for the comments. I know the Franklin article well. I used it for guidance in doing the BTVS. Will have to re-read the part on the recoil lug. I recall I ended up doing the BTVS twice as I did not use enough Devcon the first time. The second time I got into trouble with the recoil lug, and had trouble getting the action out. I eventually cut a drift out of oak and by hammering it through the magazine slot I got it to lift. This one is a single shot so not an option if I get it stuck.

I do recommend the Devcon Plastic Steel Putty. It does not run, and if anything is too thick. Also used the Kiwi neutral shoe polish as a release agent, and plumbers putty for dams. Here is a pic of the materials I used and the gun upside down with the Devcon curing. The Devcon is kind of expensive, but one package is enough to do several guns. I also use it to bed the scope bases to the receiver, and after lapping the bottom half rings, I bed them as well to the scope. Some technical specs on the Devcon at link below. It does shrink a very small amount (0.06%), but in the thicknesses used I would say it is insignificant.

http://www.devcon.com/prodfiles/pdfs/fam_tds_101.pdf

 

[RonAKA]

Well I got the LRPV bedded, and out to the range for testing. I took two tries on the bedding and still did not get it perfect. I should have removed the trigger. I think despite putting plumbers putty around the trigger some of the Devcon got under the front, When I lifted the action it removed a small piece of the very thin Devcon on the aluminum bedding block. I didn't figure it out until after the second try. Other than that, it went well, and shot well. Here are the first three, three shot groups out of the gun after bedding, as well as a before and after bedding photo.

I would like to thank the responders to the post for your help and encouragement.

 

[jo191145]

Ron
If you haven't already. Get the proper size drill bit and ream out any excess bedding from the pillar holes.

 

[RonAKA]

Ron
If you haven't already. Get the proper size drill bit and ream out any excess bedding from the pillar holes.

My thoughts were that leaving them tight would help prevent any rotation of the action in the stock. Downside of not reaming them out?

 

[Travelor]

Open the action screw holes!

Keeping them tight does not work to your advantage.

BTW, you did an excellant job!!!!!!

;D

 

[queen_stick]

Did it shoot like that before bedding?

The torque is stopped by the sides of the lug, which is why everyone is suggesting you remove the excess devcon in the screw holes. it's possible that screws are creating stress because they can't 'float' without drilling the holes out. It's almost hard to argue with those groups though... if it works, then don't mess with it!

If you feel you could squeeze a little more accuracy out of it, then try relieving those holes and the rear tang area to see what effect it has on the group size. (Most people suggest relieving the bedding on the savage actions from the rear action screw through the back of the safety tang. In other words, they're bedded from the lug back to the rear action screw only.)

Walt

 

[BoydAllen]

On reaming them out...
Many years ago, a fellow, that I was acquainted with, skim bedded a couple of Remington 700 varmint specials. Later, when he tested their accuracy, one did not perform as he thought it should. He mentioned this to me, and after looking at the bedding I suggested that he remove the bedding material that had flowed into the tops of the action screw holes. He did, and there was a dramatic improvement in the rifle's accuracy.

It may be that because you have pillars, and can use higher action screw torque settings, that you will see less of this effect. but I would still clear out the holes.

Boyd

 

[RonAKA]

Did it shoot like that before bedding?

I don't really have an apples to apples comparison of before and after. The groups I shot before were probably not the best of loads, and I was trying different jam and jump settings. But, the wind was almost non-existent during the before bedding test. So I'm not sure what it means. Here is all the groups I have shot, before and after in order of best to worst. The poorest two are the before bedding ones.

I followed the method of using two layers of masking tape around the edge of the recoil lug, and no bedding in front of the lug. So, I don't get any twist resistance from the lug. This is essentially the same as it was before bedding. I will drill out the action screw holes to see what happens. It is currently a bit of a pain as the bedding is actually threaded and tight. So I have to thread the screws though the bedding material as well as into the action. I'll keep the tang area in mind, and consider that if I decide to redo the bedding at some point. I think I will wait for a while to see how durable it is. The Devcon over the aluminum bedding block is so thin that you can see the top edge of it right through the bedding. I can see that I got it tighter at the trigger end, and it is a little higher at the recoil lug end. We'll see if the thin material holds up.

 

[jo191145]

JMO

The largest factor by far in bedding is the rear of the lug. Thats what does most of the work. Thats where problems originate in unbedded rifles for the most part. Obviously there are other concerns which is why we fully bed an action not just a dab but.....
If the rear of the lug does not make good full contact against the block rearward thrust (recoil) will jolt that action around shot to shot. Mostly left to right. The action that is allowed to move ever so slightly shot to shot will show it on paper.

Rotational force has never been much of a concern for me. Its a concern on the bags but not in the action. Like anything else you can always find an exception.
The torque of the screws is enough to overcome rotational forces. Add bedding and thats a much easier statement to get away with
Recoil pressure friction between the lug face and lug seat could arguably negate rotational forces between the action and stock. Debateable theory I'm sure ;D

One of the first tenants of fitting an action to a stock is the screws contact only the threads and head. Contact anywhere else can throw strange vibrations into the action/barrel.

In reality it may not make a bit of difference in Rons case. A full aluminum bedding block, full bedding job with quality material. A 6BR 12 twist, not known to be a high recoiling, twisting devil of a cartridge.
Or in other words, Rons bedding job is so overkill for the cartridge its likely there would never be an issue even if the screws threaded through the bedding. When it comes to bedding Overkill is a compliment Ron, don't take it anyother way

I always relieve the pillar holes of bedding automatically. I've seen over the counter bedding kits that mutate with time in a 2 screw Sav "repeater" action and heavy recoilers. Theres precious little area to bed behind a mag box on the Sav action. I have two laminate stocks that cracked at the rear pillar just from recoil force. My bet is theres a lot of those cracked stocks floating around. You really need to look Very Close to see em.
I fixed one with a Talley Crossbolt and rebedded with JB. Problem solved for more than two years.

Nice bedding and nice groups Ron. fire at will.

Yes I noticed you bedded the tang. You rebel you. I'd leave it just like that for now. I've had good luck both ways.