Straight walled to bottleneck cartridges - wanting to use less steps.

[OFFSHORE]

Hoping that you all could have some ideas for me that could help me out to shorten my process. I tend to get ideas in my head and come hell or high water, I tend to make them happen. I'm using .284 Win basic brass (straight walled) cutting it down, and sizing to .243 diameter. I have completed 100 pieces of brass to just under size with the shoulders at 30 degrees (FF case will be at 40 degrees) ready to fireform once my reamer and barrel are completed. . .but I'm currently using 9 dies and 4 bushings to get these cases formed to this stage. Is there a company that will make dies to reduce the amount of steps I'm currently going through to reach my end result. . .or is this the cost of doing business from ideas one gets in his head passing time in the treestand while hunting? If there is, please point me in the right direction!!! Thank you in advance for any information.

 

[Fuj]

I've been wildcatting the 284 brass for quite a few years. Generally I have
it down to 7 steps and no bushings used. I have a large assortment of 284
FL dies I have collected over the years, and each one has a honed out neck
of incremental sizes. The last 4 dies have a follower mandrel to keep the
necks straight. At no time do I anneal, preferring a good amount of lube.
If the brass is too soft, it will buckle, and the piece is scrap. As like the necks,
as I shorten each die, I also hone the body taper to match. It's time consuming
and tedious. Once I have what I'm looking for, I run a minimum of 500 cases.
As with the original 284, I keep a 35 degree shoulder, and stay 7mm......Here
are 3 of my earlier works, and not shown is my 7.2 Greedmore. Did that one
for a little ribbing and testing solids......One of the fellas I know that shoots at
Ridgway has something similar to what your doing. He used 450 Bushmaster
brass, but i always questioned the pressure on it, and it does use a small primer.

 

[OFFSHORE]

I've been wildcatting the 284 brass for quite a few years. Generally I have
it down to 7 steps and no bushings used. I have a large assortment of 284
FL dies I have collected over the years, and each one has a honed out neck
of incremental sizes. The last 4 dies have a follower mandrel to keep the
necks straight. At no time do I anneal, preferring a good amount of lube.
If the brass is too soft, it will buckle, and the piece is scrap. As like the necks,
as I shorten each die, I also hone the body taper to match. It's time consuming
and tedious. Once I have what I'm looking for, I run a minimum of 500 cases.
As with the original 284, I keep a 35 degree shoulder, and stay 7mm......Here
are 3 of my earlier works, and not shown is my 7.2 Greedmore. Did that one
for a little ribbing and testing solids......One of the fellas I know that shoots at
Ridgway has something similar to what your doing. He used 450 Bushmaster
brass, but i always questioned the pressure on it, and it does use a small primer.

Thank you for the info. The honing is what I had to do to 3 dies as you said to keep the inner diameter correct. Funny you mention 450 BM brass. . .I ordered 250 pieces yesterday to experiment with due to the small rifle primers. The 450BM case will go 55K - 58K in pressure so it has some attribute, derived from the 284 Win. case. You mention you DO NOT anneal? Now is this not until you have a final form first firing of a piece of brass? Because I anneal the virgin brass, chamfer, then halfway through my process anneal/chamfer again, then after the first firing (when I finally get reamer, go-gauge, and barrel) I will anneal and f-length size the fired case. I was getting a few folded cases if I went more than .025" in diameter per stage, that's why soooo many steps/dies/bushings. That could have been why??? You do not feel by not annealing during the process will shorten the lifespan of the brass? Thanks again, I appreciate the info and will give it a try on several pieces.

 

[Will Henry]

An early mentor of mine made what he called a breakdown die. This die formed a long, sloping shoulder from the original neck/shoulder juncture to the new shoulder/body juncture. The next die cut the shoulder length in half and reduced the neck diameter. The third die was the FL sizer. The dies worked very well. He said he had gotten the idea from someone else, but I don't recall who that might have been. WH

 

[Fuj]

You mention you DO NOT anneal? Now is this not until you have a final form first firing of a piece of brass?

My only anneal during the process is when I'm ready to fire form. As I mentioned
above, I keep the 35 degree shoulder, and use follower mandrels. If the case is soft
and the neck material gets thicker (plus a donut) that mandrel will cave the brass in
if too large of a diameter. Each lot has it's own quirks. I initially was using Norma brass
when I set the dies up. Norma brass disappeared so I switched to Peterson. I had to
adjust the thickness of my mandrels. My process lets me get very close to actual size
and fire forming is not excessive.

 

[ArtinNC]

I call this my 6mm284 short . It took me 8 steps to make this. I made my own die and bushings , and bought my reamers from PT&G (( back when PT&G was easer to work with ))) I had one die and 8 bushings. The only brass I lost is when I was developing bushings , after that I never lost a lost any brass . And Butch Lambert helped me a lot . It was lots of work but rewarding .

PS: My bushings had the shoulder on the them .

 

[DaveTooley]

I've got a 6-284 -.100" from the days I built Bill Shehane one for 1K BR shooting. Should have been a 243 AI. I don't remember how many steps it took but it was a lot of work. I tear up when I lose one of those cases.

 

[OFFSHORE]

The "Break-Down" die concept is something I had floating around in my head just not sure how I would draw that out to work. But yes, something along these lines is what I would like.

Dave - I'm primarily a hunter, but love my long range shooting, so this rifle will be going out in the woods with me. I already know that I will be feeling your pain when my brass is lost! I'll be flagging the area off and renting me a metal detector - LOL.

 

[butchlambert]

Contemplating making my case forming dies again. It consists of 15 bushings and the die holder. I haven't gone forward with it as I don't know the market at near $300. I would paste photos but I can't on this forum.

 

[ArtinNC]

Contemplating making my case forming dies again. It consists of 15 bushings and the die holder. I haven't gone forward with it as I don't know the market at near $300. I would paste photos but I can't on this forum.

I thought that I have seen some pictures that you posted , what happened??

 

[butchlambert]

I thought that I have seen some pictures that you posted , what happened??

I don't know what happened. All of a sudden after 20+ years I can't post photos. We looked at a couple things with a moderator with no success. I can still post photos on other forums.

 

[Fuj]

Butch......I believe these are yours.

 

[butchlambert]

Butch......I believe these are yours.

Yes, I have a 15 bushing set now.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Years ago I played around with a 6/284x 1 1/2 long.
What I did was make a die to the final form. I cut the cases a little long, then screwed the die into the press so the cases entered a little at full stroke, I then kept screwing the die down about one turn at a time, running the case back in. When it finally hit the shell holder, the case was formed, ready to trim, expand for the neck turner, and neck turn, that fire form. I used imperial wax as a case lube.

It worked, with just one die involved.

 

[OFFSHORE]

Years ago I played around with a 6/284x 1 1/2 long.
What I did was make a die to the final form. I cut the cases a little long, then screwed the die into the press so the cases entered a little at full stroke, I then kept screwing the die down about one turn at a time, running the case back in. When it finally hit the shell holder, the case was formed, ready to trim, expand for the neck turner, and neck turn, that fire form. I used imperial wax as a case lube.

It worked, with just one die involved.

^^^ This would be awesome if I can figure this out. Just ordered a 350 Rem Mag full length sizing die. When it arrives I plan on trimming it down, polishing the inside and lube up a few cases to see what happens. . .fingers crossed!!! I also have found the 450 Bushmaster brass about perfect with a little brass "elongating". If not. . .may have to tap into Mr. Lambert's wealth of knowledge and a die set. Thanks for all the replies and information - keep it coming.

 

[OFFSHORE]

The 350 RM die came in the mail yesterday and I modified it to my case design, then I played with a few cases. . .it has taken four steps out of my process!!! Now I'm thinking what about a 375 Weatherby die? Probably going to be a chore to source one of those though.

 

[Fuj]

Pics ??

 

[OFFSHORE]

Here is a picture of the case ready to be charged and fireformed. . .but that is still going to be several months out. The 450 BM brass worked out very nicely and yielded roughly .025"/.030" of excess brass to work with after final case trim for fireforming loads. . .and is MUCH cheaper and easier to come by!!! In the raw form I am getting 39.2 grains of Varget to the case body/shoulder junction. Hoping after all is said and done to be in the 40 - 42 grain range for a powder charge.

 

[X Count]

Would a sizing playe work?

Making a Blaine Eddy plate - input? | Shooters' Forum https://share.google/OhfNJ8CakLBPhavaW

 

[OFFSHORE]

The sizing plate looks very interesting. . .something to look into down the road.

Well, I came home this evening and ran 50 pieces of brass over a mandrel, then inside neck reamed to clean and true up the inside, then into a bushing die, another mandrel, and finally outside neck turned the brass to .015". They came out purdy!!! Now I just need to hurry up and wait for my reamer/GO-GAUGE and barrel. This is the worst part of it all!!! I still have 200 pieces of raw brass to work with though. . . . .