Straight 284 winchester build.

[Gunny81]

Hey guys. Here's what I'm workin with. A Savage hog hunter short action, .308 bolt face, Krieger medium palma 28" 5r barrel, Manners MCS T3 stock, ptg stealth bottom metal, and accurate mag 308 5 round dbm for 2.90". I need to know how much freebore I need on the reamer. I'm considering just shooting the straight 284 without freebore and exclusively using the 150-168gr Nosler accubond long range bullets. The G7 of the 150 is .309 so if I push it anywhere near 3200 I'll be good to 2000 yards. My previous build was a custom 7wsm that I had long throated for 180's. Now that nosler put out the new long range bullets is there even a point of shooting the heavier bullets? My longest 3/4 moa shots with a 7wsm and 180's was 2000 yards. I figured with 54gr of R17 and a 150 I could reach that a little easier with less fuel. Thoughts? The gun is already at the smith getting chambered and cut for a brake and will be at Kampfield customs next week. Please share your knowledge. I'm gonna top this gun off with a rifle basix 4oz to 3lb trigger, 20 moa base, and the new Burris XTR II 5-25x50 34mm scope.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'd like to see an independent test of that G7 BC claim. For that matter, I'd like to see if they are really getting .364 out of the 175...

If you take a look at Litz's work, he has a G7 for multiple velocities and then averages them. There is always one or two that are far better than the rest. I wonder...

 

[AlanPF]

...I'd like to see if they are really getting .364 out of the 175...

I believe Berger's introduction of "Hunting" projectiles has brought this about. Nosler must have been losing market share, so has to go higher in BC to get the customers back. Silly really, because Nosler was already making better hunting bullets than Berger. Berger hunting bullets appear to be just target bullets with thinner jackets. Looking at the pics of the 7mm Noslers on their website, I also am sceptical of their claims. The 7mm 168gn Nosler is claimed to have G7 BC of 0.353, more than than the 0.345 of the Berger 180 Hybrid! I look forward to Brian Litz getting his hands on some .

 

[yukonal]

Hey guys. Here's what I'm workin with. A Savage hog hunter short action, .308 bolt face...

Well, most of the efficient .284's are being built on long actions, to make room for powder without compressing the heck out of it. I'm guessing you know that, and have checked to see that your loaded bullet /cartridge fits your magazine. That would be my only concern.

 

[Gunny81]

Thanks guys. I'm awaiting a reply from Litz about them. I had a concern with the short action at first, but read this article.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

He was able to get 3k fps from a 162 amax. I'm not so awful concerned about the 180 anymore. I know that's blasphemy to most, but I'm slowly getting sick of messing with it. My main reason being, hornady. The 162 amax has a .625 g1 and a .309 g7. I can still run that very hard within mag length.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

If you take a look at Litz's work, he has a G7 for multiple velocities and then averages them. There is always one or two that are far better than the rest. I wonder...

I was thinking the same thing when I read the claimed BCs of Nosler's new bullets. I hope Nosler have given the ave value for BC and look forward to seeing what Bryan Litz gets when he tests these new bullets. I would also like to congratulate Nosler for making a high BC dual purpose bullet and if their claimed BCs are right then they are about to increase their bullet sales considerably!

Ian

 

[LCazador]

I finished building 3 284 Shehane hunting rifles, this past year. The Shehane differs only in body taper. One was built on a short action, and we did a zero freebore reamer to accommodate the 140g. Bergers, and 150g Noslers in the short action. The other two were on Stiller long actions and had .320" freebores tailored for 168g Bergers. With the longer action and the longer freebore, the 168's clear the shoulder/neck junction and fit the magazine with room to spare. All three are 9 twist barrels, two Broughton 5C and 1 Kreiger 5R. Guess which two are great long range shooters? Gees, I just gave it away ;D! The downfall of the 284 Winchester was that the rifles that were built for the cartridge had short actions. I think you're quite optimistic about the velocity you're going to get out of that short action chambered 284.

 

[TonyR]

I finished building 3 284 Shehane hunting rifles, this past year. The Shehane differs only in body taper. One was built on a short action, and we did a zero freebore reamer to accommodate the 140g. Bergers, and 150g Noslers in the short action. The other two were on Stiller long actions and had .320" freebores tailored for 168g Bergers. With the longer action and the longer freebore, the 168's clear the shoulder/neck junction and fit the magazine with room to spare. All three are 9 twist barrels, two Broughton 5C and 1 Kreiger 5R. Guess which two are great long range shooters? Gees, I just gave it away ;D! The downfall of the 284 Winchester was that the rifles that were built for the cartridge had short actions. I think you're quite optimistic about the velocity you're going to get out of that short action chambered 284.

.320 freebore?? Seems like a lot?

 

[Gunny81]

I finished building 3 284 Shehane hunting rifles, this past year. The Shehane differs only in body taper. One was built on a short action, and we did a zero freebore reamer to accommodate the 140g. Bergers, and 150g Noslers in the short action. The other two were on Stiller long actions and had .320" freebores tailored for 168g Bergers. With the longer action and the longer freebore, the 168's clear the shoulder/neck junction and fit the magazine with room to spare. All three are 9 twist barrels, two Broughton 5C and 1 Kreiger 5R. Guess which two are great long range shooters? Gees, I just gave it away ;D! The downfall of the 284 Winchester was that the rifles that were built for the cartridge had short actions. I think you're quite optimistic about the velocity you're going to get out of that short action chambered 284.

Why is that optimistic? The gentleman who was shooting the 162 amax and reloader 17 from a 25" 9 twist krieger was getting 3000 from a normal load. Even at 3000 fps, what does that make my drop at 1000? closer to 7 or eight mills and about 21.5-22 at a mile? I know I'll hit over 3100 with the 150 and a 28" 9 twist. It's just finding the node it likes somewhere over 3000 fps. I'm not trying to argue. I've built a couple long action 7wsms before and what I'm looking at is the guys with short actions and shorter throats pushing the same thing.

 

[yukonal]

I finished building 3 284 Shehane hunting rifles, this past year. The Shehane differs only in body taper. One was built on a short action, and we did a zero freebore reamer to accommodate the 140g. Bergers, and 150g Noslers in the short action. The other two were on Stiller long actions and had .320" freebores tailored for 168g Bergers. With the longer action and the longer freebore, the 168's clear the shoulder/neck junction and fit the magazine with room to spare. All three are 9 twist barrels, two Broughton 5C and 1 Kreiger 5R. Guess which two are great long range shooters? Gees, I just gave it away ;D! The downfall of the 284 Winchester was that the rifles that were built for the cartridge had short actions. I think you're quite optimistic about the velocity you're going to get out of that short action chambered 284.

.320 freebore?? Seems like a lot?

I'm sure he meant .220" freebore.

 

[LCazador]

You guys are sharp and my humble apologies. Yes it's .220 freebore on the one I built for the long actions. And Gunny the reason I'm saying you're optimistic in your 3000FPS quest, is with that zero freebore and short action, you're seriously infringing on the powder room. Also because the bullet is seated well below the neck/shoulder junction we encountered some inconsistencies with donut formation effect on the bullet tension. I've always believed if you can steer yourself away from the neck/shoulder junction, the better off you are. The zero freebore chamber that we did on a short action fell short of 3000fps with a 150g ballistic tip and that was with the Shehane chamber that has more powder room. We had zero problems with the same chamber in .220" Freebore, and of course much higher velocity. Just my experience, not saying yours could be different.

 

[Gunny81]

Ok. The rifle is at my smith. He has a straight 284 finisher and a shehane reamer. What would you suggest to get more freebore without ordering another reamer? Remember, I'm stuck with a short action, so if I go too, long please list some modifications I might have to do to accommodate a longer round.

 

[expiper]

Hi gunny,,,I would suggest using the reamer with ~.220' FB so that you can seat the bullets to the optimum lengths ,,,,you can load these ctgs. in your action in a single shot manner,,,when you are shooting at long range most folks single load the ammo,,,,,if you "must" load them in your magazine then seat several to that length and shoot your first shot (which usually does the killing when hunting) with a bullet loaded long ,and have a mag full of the shorties,,,, I would not worry about the extra jump on these "short" ctgs when used in hunting/field situations....Roger

 

[Judd]

When you develop a load seated long make sure you work up to that load on a short seated bullet. Seating depth effects pressure.

I'd do the .220 free bore and load single shot if I had too.

 

[Gunny81]

Ok so I've been thinking. (dangerous I know) I ordered the accurate mag that allows for an overall length of 2.95" I believe. That should be plenty for the 150 Accubond long range. I never was really looking into shooting the bullets longer than the 162 amax. It would be a nice option, but if it won't work past that weight in a short action without seating long and single feeding, then I don't want to. My primary focus will be pushing the 150 as fast as I can from the straight 284 chambering. Considering the 162 amax with 53gr of r17 can get 3050fps from a 25" 9 twist, I don't think that 3150-3200 should be too much of a stretch from a 28" at 2.95" same twist. My reason for this build instead of just building another long action 7wsm is to utilize a the new 150 ab long range bullet. the g1 is .611 and the g7 is .309. Until I actually take the round to the threashold, there's not enough data supporting the bullet's performance either way. I'm pretty well just gonna build this one knowing I can get 200 fps above a 7mm08 and knowing I can get close to the 7wsm with about 10 grains less powder with the 150-160 class projectiles. I don't compete, so this rifle is purely for my own enjoyment. When I first started pushing a 308 to the limits a few years ago, I kept going back to a 28" barrel and a 155 amax and scenar. running them about 3050fps let me get to 1200 yards. The g7 coefficients of the 162 amax and the 150 ablr give me solice knowing that they can be pushed pretty hard from the longer barrel. Please tell me if I'm wrong in guessing the 150 accubond long range at 3100fps is 6.7 mils from a hundred yard zero at 1000 with 975lb/ft and 19.6 mils from a hundred at 1760 with 346 lb/ft. The round still wouldn't go subsonic till 1570 at that speed. The 162 amax at 3100 is virtually identical. If the nosler doesn't pan out, I'm thinkin I still have a proven 162 amax at 2.90" and an even better at 2.95".

 

[Gunny81]

Again. This guy's rifle is my basis for comparison since it's just not popular to use a straight 284 no freebore for anything. He got really acceptable results from 160 accubonds and 162 amax's with r17 and a 25.5" 9 twist. I just want to duplicate it with a longer, heavier barrel, the same and better bullets, and more powder. Lol


http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

 

[LCazador]

Again. This guy's rifle is my basis for comparison since it's just not popular to use a straight 284 no freebore for anything. He got really acceptable results from 160 accubonds and 162 amax's with r17 and a 25.5" 9 twist. I just want to duplicate it with a longer, heavier barrel, the same and better bullets, and more powder. Lol


http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

Here it is straight from the Hornady reloading manual. Loads for the 284 Winchester, with 162gr. A-Max, BC .625 , COL of 2.995 ( won't fit in your mag), maximum load of RL-19 listed is 53.3g, for a velocity of 2700fps out of 24 inch barrel. How are you going to get to 3100fps, even with a 28 inch barrel and RL-17? Oh I know, you get a long string to pull the trigger with and you can do it only once, LOL ;D ! Not trying to argue but I have not seen that done by anyone with the standard case and short COL.

 

[topmoteur]

i have a 284 win with a 28" mcgowen barrel built on a savage action and my best run is 2840 f/s with berger hybrid 168 with rl-17 52 gr more powder and the bolt come stiff to open

 

[Gunny81]

Here it is straight from the Hornady reloading manual. Loads for the 284 Winchester, with 162gr. A-Max, BC .625 , COL of 2.995 ( won't fit in your mag), maximum load of RL-19 listed is 53.3g, for a velocity of 2700fps out of 24 inch barrel. How are you going to get to 3100fps, even with a 28 inch barrel and RL-17? Oh I know, you get a long string to pull the trigger with and you can do it only once, LOL ;D ! Not trying to argue but I have not seen that done by anyone with the standard case and short COL.

http://accurateshooter.net/pix/sierra284.pdf

It's funny you pointed that out. Hornady tends to list the most gutless loads of all of them out there. I believe I'll seek my advice from a company with a proven shooting team. Did you notice the velocity and length that sierra listed? Not trying to argue, but Hornady, speer, barnes, lyman, and rcbs are conservative manuals to say the least. Did you once think that someone's going to stick to the book on a project? What fun is that? ;D

I guess we'll have to see. The barreled action should be ready in three weeks. I'll chrono first five loads. That'll be same length, bullet, and different charges working up in 0.3gr increments from 52.5 of r17. I'm gonna push it till I see pressure signs. from there I'm going to experiment with lengths at each velocity. Hopefully I'll find a node in there near 3100. I've discussed this with numerous folks, including the man building the gun (he shoots the same build) and he's affirmed me that IMR 4350 and r17 will push the 150 above 3100 with 54gr. It all depends on what length the pressure starts to get bad. Ramshot Hunter looks pretty promising also. Like I said. This is going to be an experiment with the 284 with extensive use of the 150 NABLR. If it turns out less than what I feel is a breakthrough, then the barrel's getting pulled and punched out with my long throated 7wsm reamer and put on a Savage Long Action. Lol! I'm simply going to try and get as much from what is advertised as the best weight/bc bullet for this caliber. As far as the reloading manual goes. Well, that's all up to interpretation. I haven't seen a single manual that pushes a single caliber. My perfect examples for that are the heavy 284 and 7wsm. In my last custom I ran the 7wsm with up to 70gr of H1000 and a berger 180 hybrid at almost 3100 fps from an 8.5 twist krieger at 27". Pressure signs didn't appear till 70.3 grains and only a 20fps gain. The ONLY reason I didn't bother with this load was the groups at 600 in didn't pan out as well as the same bullet running 3050 fps with 69gr h1000. The ES was 17 and SD was 9. That load was tits all the way to a mile (15 hits of 20 shots on a 2'x2' steel plate). There's not a manual out there that publishes the 180 hybrid loads on the 284 long action. The simple explanation is that the manufacturers lacked the balls to try longer lengths and different powders. They simply did the math and stuck with what worked on paper. I very much doubt that they put forth the effort that Litz does in testing powders, lengths, and pressures. They found a SAAMI load that would be safe in all manufacturers actions so that the novice reloader wouldn't scratch himself with a real load. Most of the loads I've run through my 338 edge, 260AI, 7WSM, 300WSM, and 300WM are at least 2 grains above maximum listed. When you're running slow powders, that amounts to a lot. Like I said boys, we'll see. I'll make sure and share the results as I really doubt that many folks are even giving merit to the new bullets enough yet to bother trying them.