stock placement in rear bag

[grizz]

Need a little help from the more experienced. On a benchrest stock that has the "flat" on the bottom of the rear portion, do I want the flat to touch the stitching between the ears or do I want it a little off the stitching. I have the 3/4" stitch on a Edgewood bag. 6mm Br.

I'm shooting a sub 2 inch group at 600 yds on my first string of most relays, but group always opens up on the second string
any ideas why? Help, Grizz.

 

[JohnMill]

Sure,here ya go. The wind picks up on the second relay. Seriously there is no one that can really answer that on a website.
The stock rides on the bag. Have you ever watched the competitors beat the gun down on the bags. If your first group is always smaller than the second then take everything off of the bench and approach it as if it were the first relay. Nuttin toot.

John

 

[Preacher]

The stock needs to be set solid in the flat, and then worked back and forth to settle it in...

 

[lynn]

Grizz
I don't know what stock your using but on the ST1000 made by Bill Shehane we use the 3/4 inch wide Edgewood bag but we modify it.
We cut the stitching off so the ears fall off.We then go to the local saddel shop and have them sewn back onto a piece of thick leather at around one and a eight inches wide.This allows the stock to ride without popping up on the ears as your string continues.
We then use Shoe Goop to attach the leather back to the top of the bag.
I can never figure out how to properly size down my photos to fit this website but if you want to see what I'm talking about you can send me your e-mail address and I can snap some pictures.
Lynn

 

[JohnMill]

When I bought the ST1000L Shehane told me to use his bag. Said it would fit tight at first but after using for a while it would fit perfect. I did and it did.

John

 

[lynn]

Guys I finaly took the photos and sent them out.They might load slowly as there are 7-8 photos in the e-mails.
If possible please post them here so everybody can see them.
Lynn

 

[artbosco]

On a benchrest stock that has the "flat" on the bottom of the rear portion, do I want the flat to touch the stitching between the ears or do I want it a little off the stitching. I have the 3/4" stitch on a Edgewood bag. 6mm Br.

Regardless of flat or a slightly sloping rear stock, I always have my stocks riding slightly "off" the stitching, after pounding the rear stock down into the ears.

What's the width of the stock at the edge of the "flat"?

 

[in2deep]

There is a long range record holder on the forum that says having your stock resting on the bottom of the bag reduces vertical.

Many ways to skin a cat.

 

[grizz]

I asked the question, got several opinions and finally set up a test to find out what works best.
Your long range champion is right......putting the flat of the stock on the bag( stitching) does reduce veritcal.

Last weekend I took the same gun, same ammo and two different bags to the 300 yard line in 6BR caliber. First bag--stock was off the bag about 1/8 to 1/4". Vertical of the group was 2-1/2 inches.

Second bag----flat of stock was resting on the bag.
Group was 3/4 inch vertical with overall group 1-1/4 inches.
In my own opinion, stock on the bag is the way to go.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Good needed info grizz.

 

[alf]

I've argued my view in the past, and the only guy telling me I'm wrong doesn't shoot long range.......

 

[BoydAllen]

Lynn,
If you want them posted, send them to me.
Boyd

 

[artbosco]

I've argued my view in the past, and the only guy telling me I'm wrong doesn't shoot long range.......

Here are a few rhetorical questions for those viewing this image.

What do those beautifully photographed raised stitches, that one piece of thread that's sticking up, and that bell shaped lump in the foreground, do to vertical? Do they reduce vertical, or do they enhance vertical?

Regardless of whether one is shooting at 100, 500, or 1000 yards, what advantages do these, or various other irregularities have, on shrinking group size, as your rifle is recoiling across them?

To be fair, not all rear bags slots have irregularities. However, they are something to be aware of. If you're going to rest the butt in the slot, at the very least, look for one that's smooth.

Fore additional background on this subject you might want to read: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/09/rear-bags-match-them-to-your-stock-profile/

 

[BoydAllen]

Once, I did a little experiment using my 6PPC. I normally have a little gap under the rear of the stock, so that the butt does not touch the stitching. I don't say that this is better. It is just the way that it is. (No, I don't shoot long range, and yes. I do believe that targets are the ultimate arbitor.) What I found was that I could simply put a wooden pencil in the gap, and it was an effective, low friction spacer that created contact with the main part of the bag, without raising the stock so high as to make it unstable in the ears. Casual testing showed no obvious difference, where it counts, at the target. The only reason that I bring this up is to offer a method to do some testing of your own. If your present bag has your stock off the stitching, taping a thin piece of smooth wood to the bottom of the butt should allow comparison testing without much trouble or expense. If someone tries this, I would be interested in reading the results.

 

[alf]

I've argued my view in the past, and the only guy telling me I'm wrong doesn't shoot long range.......

What do those beautifully photographed raised stitches, that one piece of thread that's sticking up, and that bell shaped lump in the foreground, do to vertical? Do they reduce vertical, or do they enhance vertical?

Regardless of whether one is shooting at 100, 500, or 1000 yards, what advantages do these, or various other irregularities have, on shrinking group size, as your rifle is recoiling across them?

And again, what appears to be lumps, bumps, ridges, and stitches are in no way, shape or form in the way for straight and consistent tracking, with no verticle induced, except from conditions at hand for the day. The bag is level as water and flat as a pancake. The picture is deceiving. I beat and pound my rear bag into submission. Some should take lessons...........

 

[artbosco]

I've argued my view in the past, and the only guy telling me I'm wrong doesn't shoot long range.......

What do those beautifully photographed raised stitches, that one piece of thread that's sticking up, and that bell shaped lump in the foreground, do to vertical? Do they reduce vertical, or do they enhance vertical?

Regardless of whether one is shooting at 100, 500, or 1000 yards, what advantages do these, or various other irregularities have, on shrinking group size, as your rifle is recoiling across them?

The bag is level as water and flat as a pancake. The picture is deceiving.

alf, As long as you're convinced ... that's all that matters.

 

[alf]

I've argued my view in the past, and the only guy telling me I'm wrong doesn't shoot long range.......

What do those beautifully photographed raised stitches, that one piece of thread that's sticking up, and that bell shaped lump in the foreground, do to vertical? Do they reduce vertical, or do they enhance vertical?

Regardless of whether one is shooting at 100, 500, or 1000 yards, what advantages do these, or various other irregularities have, on shrinking group size, as your rifle is recoiling across them?

The bag is level as water and flat as a pancake. The picture is deceiving.

alf, As long as you're convinced ... that's all that matters.

I'm not the one that needs convincing.........

 

[alf]

Or this one......

 

[Nodak7mm]

Alf,

Your accomplishments speak volume's. It definitely works for you & thanks for posting that pic...

Grizz.... I found out last match it works for me too. Wished I had seen that pix earlier, like in May. Up till two weeks ago, I had been resting my butt just in/on the ears of the bag, about 1/8-1/4" off the stitching. At the time it seemed I was always adjust for verticle as the strings went on. Well I tried beating the butt into the bag, tried less sand, no improvement. I was always told, "DONT let it ride on/in the stitching".

So fast forward to just after the first string of a 3 string match. The guy scoring for me said "Rod, take some sand out of the ears and get that butt down onto the stitching, better yet, use my bag".. I used his bag, which allowed the butt to ride the stitching and would you believe it, the last two strings I shot I scored 8&9 points respectively, higher and I wasnt adjusting for vertical anymore...

HHmmmm Works for me..

Rod

 

[DBailey]

alf

Do you shoot with the end of the stock in the ears, or was that picture just to show how the stock sits down in the bag?