Starting Load When Freebore is Excessive

[pertnear]

I have a Browning 1885 High-Wall in .270 Win. I bought this rifle used & it is new to me. I've started my load development by determining the "touch point" of a 130 gr Speer SP, my favorite hunting bullet in 270 Win. I'll get a BTO measurement from this cartridge. The good thing about falling block actions is there is no magazine, so they can be made short & handy & bullets can be seated as long as you like without worrying about feeding issues. But I was surprised at how long the freebore is. In the picture you can see my test cartridge with the bullet seated to the touch point. I've laid another bullet next to it to show how much neck contact there is. It's about 3/16" into the neck. I normally start my load development .010" below this point & work back & forth from there. Now my questions:

1) For this hunting rifle, using a spitzer bullet, is such a short neck hold acceptable (from a handling & alignment consideration)?
2) Should I start with the load manual's OAL specification & go from there?
3) What do other reloaders suggest as a good starting depth?



Maybe I'm just worried about nothing & it won't matter? Your thoughts...

 

[Homerange]

Now my questions:

1) For this hunting rifle, using a spitzer bullet, is such a short neck hold acceptable (from a handling & alignment consideration)?
2) Should I start with the load manual's OAL specification & go from there?
3) What do other reloaders suggest as a good starting depth?

1. No.
3. 1 bore diameter seating depth or close to it to ensure a firm bullet hold to withstand the bumps that a hunting setup gets.

Long jumps aren't something to avoid just something to find a pill that works with them.

 

[INTJ]

You can probably make it work with 1/2 cal of bullet grip--that was what a Sierra Tech told me years ago. I personally like closer to 1 caliber of grip in a hunting rifle. That said, a long jump doesn't mean you still can't get excellent accuracy, it just takes away one load tuning tool.

So start with the bullet far enough in the case so it has a decent amount of grip, then tune with powder and primer. You might need to check a few different bullets as well. Most Weatherby chambers have 3/8" of freebore (they used to have 3/4") and they will shoot to hunting level accuracy.

 

[K22]

Remington 700's are notorious for the long free bore but I've never had any problems developing very accurate loads for them without being anywhere near the lands.

I always seat the bullet at least one bullet diameter into the case to provide adequate hold on the bullet.

Several years ago Sierra published an article on this subject. They claimed that some rifles actually shoot better with a jump. My experiences bear this out to be so.

Even if the round will fit the magazine with bullets seated longer, I never seat bullets closer than .010" to the lands and in most cases, .020". I have several rifles with after market barrels and a few factory rifles that shoot in the sub 1/2 moa area with bullets seated with this amount of jump.

Most factory ammo that I've seen seat bullets far below the SAMMI max length spec. thus creating quite a bit of jump. I've witnessed remarkable groups fired by others at the range with premium factory ammo.

 

[Bill K]

With a single shot it would work and if it is the most accurate load, then use it.
Regardless of the free bore of your rifle, you need to work up a load or loads that are the most accurate at the seating depth that is best in YOUR rifle.
And of course follow the safe load, without showing high pressure.

 

[Ron Gorski]

if the gun is used, check for throat erosion.

 

[swd]

For a single shot that’s plenty of bullet in the neck. I’d start .020” off but your idea of .010” off and work back is fine too. Like another mentioned there’s also nothing wrong with long jumps either. Plenty of guns shoot fine at .050”-.100”. I had a rifle years ago that liked a full .200” and shot extremely well there.

 

[Uncle Ed]

After I got out of the military in 1973 I bought a Remington 760 Gamemaster in .270 Win.
I pondered your same problem and all I had was a green plastic Lyman vernier caliper. So I kept it simple, I bought Hornady 130 grain bullets that had a cannelure and seated the bullets to the middle of the cannelure.

Jack O'Connor came to me in a dream and said the .270 Winchester was the world's best non-belted magnum and to do it that way.

 

[RegionRat]

1. Suggestion on minimum seating depth. Make a dummy round and try to "break" it with abuse. If it holds itself straight, no slippage, then you have your answer. A single shot can get away with a few things that other magazine fed designs will not.
2. As long as you are not starting out at loads near maximums, you will be okay. I am going to assume you will do your bullet, case, powder, primer, and prep process due diligence to begin with. If you work from a good manual and start with their data near the middle, you should be okay starting out. Then walk the charges up and watch for pressure. If you keep some margin, then you have room to start playing with seating depth again too.
3. I have never owned one of those, but you should have no issues going with a 0.020" jump or a load manual value for a starting point. If a 0.020" jump makes a bullet that doesn't satisfy number 1 above, then that suggestion about 1 bullet diameter worth of grip is an okay suggestion too.

Don't be afraid of large jumps. Some rifles like the old Weatherby designs used lots of jump and shot very well. A good way to start rookies, is to have them try and copy any factory ammo they say their gun likes, just as a suggestion. So, if you started with some decent quality factory ammo in a similar bullet weight, see if starting out with a similar depth helps your confidence with a starting point.

 

[CharlieNC]

Start with the Berger seating depth test, on their website. Even for the vld they advocate evaluating quite long jumps!

 

[nmkid]

Don't be afraid of large jumps. Some rifles like the old Weatherby designs used lots of jump and shot very well.

Are the 'new' Weatherbys different?

 

[RegionRat]

Are the 'new' Weatherbys different?

Afraid I can't answer what they run nowadays as I don't own one and as my friends who were Weatherby fans fade away I can't ask them.

I would never want to argue with those who design their chambers with a mind towards jam dimensions, there are very many accomplished shooters who run that way all the time and manage it well.

However, it also doesn't mean there isn't an equal number who manage excellent performance while jumping with larger values than five or twenty mils.

The use of the word "old" in that context, is to point out that some of the more expensive guns did this because Roy believed it performed, and also because there was a few folks who were under the impression that this is a recent concept.

 

[D-4297]

A large number of F-TR and Open shooters "jump" their bullets .020 , or even more . As suggested , try the Berger seating test to establish a potential seating depth , and refine it from their . From the picture you posted , it appears that you have about the same amount of bearing surface inside the case that I have on my Competition loads for a .308 , using Berger 185 Juggs . I load with .0005 - .001 interference fit , and have never had a bullet come loose , or get "Bent out of shape", that I know of . Or I wouldn't be consistently shooting mid to high 190's .

Most loading manuals tend to give moderate load data , so my suggestion would be to do the calculations and begin your load work-up at around 60 - 65% of maximum stated book load . Should save components and range time . With that flat base bullet , loading that far forward in the neck , you would have to go way overboard to get into trouble . It's when people start shoving long , heavy bullets deep into the case , that strange things begin to happen .