Stainless vs Chrome moly barrel...

[Judd]

What are pros and cons to each and why do you pick what you do?

All of mine are blued chrome moly vs 1 stainless up to this point and just wondered...accuracy wise, I don't shoot groups on paper I prefer steel or clays, I can't tell a difference and it seems both require about the same amount of maintenance.

 

[LHSmith]

There is no downside to stainless steel. I have seen many CM factory barrels with rust pits in the bore. There can be no doubt that stainless has more resistance to weathering than CM....... and more forgiving when the proper maintenence is neglected before putting the gun in storage (although SS can corrode in extreme conditions). Unless you do your own bluing, the additional cost of applying a protective finish is far more that the upgrade from CM to SS.
Accuracy-wise, perhaps 99% of barrels used in Competitive BR are SS......if there was ANY evidence the chance of getting a "hummer" barrel from a CM was greater vs. SS barrel...... then that stat would be the other way around.

 

[SteveNC]

Well said.

 

[butchlambert]

So if you do a search on this forum what do you find. Frank Green,general mgr. of Bartlien barrels stated he uses CM in competition. Said they shoot just as well and last last as long as SS. I have had only 2 BR barrels in CM and my experience mirrors his experience.

 

[Rustystud]

In the search for the best steels to make barrels barrel makers have had many choices. The CM alloys and the SS alloys have many of the same or simular characteristics. Both make great shooting rifles. Stainless steel whether 410, 415, 416, 17-7, and CM in 4130,4140, and others have their differences. The average shooter would not see much difference other than corrosion resistence. The machinist or gunsmith will see a difference in the turning and threading in tooling selection, feed and speed, and coolant selection.

I have never asked a barrel maker what differences in process and tooling in making both CM and SS barrels. I may aske Mike Rock next time I speak with him. His shop makes both cut and button rifled barrels.
Nat Lambeth

 

[Robert]

In the search for the best steels to make barrels barrel makers have had many choices. The CM alloys and the SS alloys have many of the same or simular characteristics. Both make great shooting rifles. Stainless steel whether 410, 415, 416, 17-7, and CM in 4130,4140, and others have their differences. The average shooter would not see much difference other than corrosion resistence. The machinist or gunsmith will see a difference in the turning and threading in tooling selection, feed and speed, and coolant selection.

I have never asked a barrel maker what differences in process and tooling in making both CM and SS barrels. I may aske Mike Rock next time I speak with him. His shop makes both cut and button rifled barrels.
Nat Lambeth

Nat,
I do not think the common alloys choice is as vast as you mention. Hereunder are some specifications I wrote time ago in a local fprum:

BARREL STEELS

Except one manufacturer, for corrosion-resistant steel (the term Stainless is inadequate here), all uses the same steel, and it is the 416R (Euronorm X12CrS13 or Wk nr 1.4005).

This metal is the preferred for its machine-ability, as alloyed with sulphur. A blessing for the machinists, but on the detriment of the qualities one could normally expect from a barrel: Quite soft, high friction, prone to hollow corrosion… But it polishes so well and easily that the shine of it attracts at first..

-The 416, supplied in annealed condition, is about:
C= 0,12%
Cr= 12%
Brinell Hardness : 170-175
Rm: 630-650MPa
Modulus of Elasticity: 200Gpa

-While the 420 used by Lothar Walther is:
C= 0,20%
Cr= 13%
Brinell Hardness 205
Rm: 725Mpa
Modulus of Elasticity: 200GPa.

The Walther 420 is supplied by Boehler-Udderlohn from Austira under Walther’s specifications.

Just a quick mention here of the CrMo steels used for barrels . The various alloys used are all of higher mechanical and physical properties than the 416.
-A typical one is 42CrMo4 or 4140:
C=0,40%
Cr=1%
Mn=0,80%
M=0,25%
Brinnell hardness: 225 to 241
Rm: 1000MPa
Modulus of elasticity: 205GPa.
Good coefficient of friction and polishes extremely well.

R.G.C

 

[Rustystud]

Robert:

I rarely chamber a CM barrel anymore. The reason I included 410, 415 SS is that some barrel makers in the past have made their lighter contours in 410 or 415 for use in cold weather. Most of the barrel makers I purchase barrels from advertise their barrels being 416 SS. I knew Walther used a propriatary steel alloy and many gunsmiths refuse to chamber their barrels because it ruins tooling. Thanks for the lesson in steel composition.
Nat Lambeth

 

[butchlambert]

Nat,
Did you get my email last week?

 

[Robert]

Robert:

. I knew Walther used a propriatary steel alloy and many gunsmiths refuse to chamber their barrels because it ruins tooling.
Nat Lambeth

Nat,
Or they lack confidence in their own skills and, IMHO, they then do not deserve the qualification of 'Gunsmith'...or perhaos they do not know the virtues of high pressure lubrification ...

R.G.C

 

[Judd]

Good info guys, thanks!

 

[Rustystud]

Butch: Did not get an e-mail from you that I can remember. Robert I have been using a high pressure coolant lubrication system for over ten years. I have done thousands of barrels in the last 40 plus years. I have several reamers with 1500- 2000 chambers on them with out a regrind. I use Rustlic 255R as specified by their engineers.
Thanks Nat

 

[holstil]

My interest is piqued in the Lothar Walther barrels. I am not a gunsmith but I do enjoy building my own rifles. What does one need to know about Lothar Walther barrels to not break tooling? I don't have a flushing system. Should you stay away if you don't high pressure flush?

Jim

 

[Robert]

My interest is piqued in the Lothar Walther barrels. I am not a gunsmith but I do enjoy building my own rifles. What does one need to know about Lothar Walther barrels to not break tooling? I don't have a flushing system. Should you stay away if you don't high pressure flush?

Jim

Jim,

I had done quuite a lot of chamberings in L.W barrels in the past, most of them before I turned to pressure coolant wirh just the necessary care one should have when processing a barreling.

The steel is not of the free-machining sulphur-added as the 416 is, but has much more improved mechanical properties. I consider it is not much harder than a CrMo one to machine...much easier anyway than a hammer-forged CrMo one...

The care to take is remocing the swarf and clean more often as the chips generated are different and tend to stick. As Nat says, reamers wear is not a pronlem at all.

On question of threading, the process and finish is comparable and need no specific care. If you can thread one in 4140 or 416, you can thread same in any 400 series stainless.

R.G.C

 

[eww1350]

One other consideration...stainless steel vs chromoly..most competition shooters that shoot calibers with a short lifespan will always opt for ss because of the need to protect the "outside" of the barrel from corrosion..when one buys 10-20 barrels for a competitive season...the cost of blueing or coating those for exterior corrosion becomes a cost factor that can be avoided and the easy touch-up refinish of stainless steel (lathe polish with 3m pad, etc.) is an easy decision...Krieger and Bartlein will tell you that there isn't any accuracy diffierence between the two...just maintenance...



Eddie in Texas

 

[butchlambert]

Eddie,
The smart thing to do is have them melonite QPQ treated. Cheap corrosion proofing and greatly extends barrel life.

 

[Boisblancboy]

If I missed it sorry, but is there much of a cost difference between CM vs. SS?

 

[butchlambert]

List price for a Shilen select match SS is $358. and the CM match plus lapping is $240. Brownells and the barrelman probably have cheaper prices.