Spotting scopes???

[ChadCollins]

I'm a sling shootin belly flopper. Wondering if I should look for an older Kowa TSN-821M or the new TSN-82SV? The 821M has a 27X LER vs 25X of the newer 82SV. I feel the extra 2X may help a little, but maybe the new scope is much more clear? What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Chad

 

[Warren Dean]

You might consider finding an older Kowa TSN-1 with an angled 25X eyepiece. It is bullet proof and won't cost 2 grand. They show up on eBay occasionally for 4-500 bucks.

I would not sell mine on a bet.

 

[Erud]

You won't even see that 2x magnification difference. The 821 scopes used an eyepiece that was specifically for that line. When they designed the 82SV, they made it to accept the eyepieces that most of the other Kowa's were already using. There is really no difference performance-wise between the two, and Kowa will still service the 821's. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used 821 at a good price over an 82SV. Either one will work great.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I'm a sling shootin belly flopper. Wondering if I should look for an older Kowa TSN-821M or the new TSN-82SV? The 821M has a 27X LER vs 25X of the newer 82SV. I feel the extra 2X may help a little, but maybe the new scope is much more clear? What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Chad

You do realize that the Kowa 25X LER eyepiece TE-17HD, is a 27X eyepiece when mounted on the Kowa 82SV.

 

[ChadCollins]

No I did not know that. Where did you learn that?
Chad

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

No I did not know that. Where did you learn that?
Chad

Reading the manual. The eyepiece is 25X on a 660 spotter and since the internal image in the 82sv is larger than in the 660, the 25X eyepiece is a 27X eyepiece in the 82sv.

https://sportingoptics.kowa-usa.com/spotting-scopes/1271-tsn-82sv-angled-spotting-scope.html

 

[Walt Krafft]

If you are left handed there are better scopes that dont have the eye piece offset to the side.

 

[GSS]

If you are left handed there are better scopes that dont have the eye piece offset to the side.

With a rotating Band on the 821M or the 82SV there is no left hand or right hand concerns with an angled eyepiece. You definitely want the angled eyepiece and rotating band on any spotting scope for shooting purposes.

I'm just a Service Rifle shooter but half of our 80 round matches are fired from prone.
Two rapid Prone strings of 10 from 300 yards and then 20 record shots slow prone from 600 yards.

Chad, As you likely already know;
Especially for prone just as important is a scope stand head that gets the scope out away from the stand and closer to the shooter.

You don't want to have to break your prone position to monitor mirage ( primary purpose of a spotting scope ) between breaking shots.

The Polecat is an awesome stand and head that does just that and makes it very easy to set up the scope.
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/1357/Scope-and-Stand-Accessories

Cool Video showing all features that are maybe more important to XTC shooters.
Single handed scope head up/down and side to side operation is a great design feature so no need to break position to adjust the scope once in position.

At 1:32 in you see Dennis show how to swap the scope setup to be used on different sides of the shooter as desired.

True one size fits all and very sturdy so your quality scope doesn't crash to the ground if bumped or in windy conditions.

Any even fairly expensive / quality spotting scope deserves a good and solid stand.

Chad, I agree as others have said above any of the TSN1, 821M or 82SV will serve you well so you should just go with whichever one you find a best deal on if you can find a decent deal on a used one.

My primary spotting scope is an 821M with a 1" polecat head that I have had for years.

My backup / new shooter loaner spotting scope is a Celestron Regal M2 65ED.
The glass and brightness on this is every bit as good as my 821M when properly focused for picking up mirage. Only slight downside is the rotating band isn't as sturdy as the Kowa's. It's not bad but there is slight play in there on the one I have.
They are an awesome value and many people in my area never upgrade from these. scopes
https://www.celestron.com/products/regal-m2-65ed-spotting-scope

Currently $499 at Optics planet but you can probably find cheaper searching around and / or Amazon https://www.opticsplanet.com/celestron-regal-m2-65ed-spotting-scope.html

One shooter / friend has the 80mm Celestron ED and it is quite a bit heavier / bulkier than the 65 and you are hard pressed to see any image quality differences when comparing side by side on the range.

Many used cheaper / lesser quality spotting scopes are posted for sale as people upgrade to what you are wisely looking to go to 1st.

Good deals on used Kowas do come up from time to time so Jump Quick when you see one..



Recommended Scope position in Prone shown at 1:21 in on the video below.

At 2:18 in there is a lesson on how the spotting scope in the proper location can save you points from wind / mirage changes. and Checking mirage from position without breaking position at 2:30 in.

 

[rsmithsr50]

the ability to see an x size hole at y00 yards is based on 2 things
the quality of the glass.
and
the dia of the front glass( bigger is better for longer distance or smaller holes)

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

the ability to see an x size hole at y00 yards is based on 2 things
the quality of the glass.
and
the dia of the front glass( bigger is better for longer distance or smaller holes)

That's actually a little shortsighted (pun fully intended.)

The big factors are atmospheric conditions and the appearance of the targets.

 

[rsmithsr50]

my statement is based on the SPOTTING SCOPE.
THE SUBJECT OF THE POST
you cannot see a target in a dust storm, but that is not the SUBJECT.

That's actually a little shortsighted (pun fully intended.)

The big factors are atmospheric conditions and the appearance of the targets.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

More isn't always better.

Had the Kowa 77mm/82mm with the LER eyepiece, but eventually settled on an older Leica Televid 62mm angled body with a 20X eyepiece. Thing is, with that 20X eyepiece (for the 77mm body) on that 62mm body, it was only SIXTEEN power. What did that buy me? A field of view that was incredible and a depth of field better than anything I had ever looked through. I cannot recall how many targets I could see at 1000yds, but it was a bunch. I could see changes coming a loooong way off. What is more is that with that depth of field, I could see mirage better than anything I had ever looked through. The clarity edge to edge was awesome. My ability to pick up on finite changes in mirage was enhanced using this setup over any Kowa.

 

[DR1586]

Some may argue with me, but I believe the TSN-1 to be about as perfect for highpower as you can get. It is reliable, rugged, and simple. It offers good clarity, excellent eye relief and allows you to see mirage very well. Plus it is affordable and allows you to sink more money into practice ammo or matches. I have 3 spotters, 2 are TSN-1s with the LER eye piece. Keep your eye out for one and you won’t be disappointed.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the 821 and if a good deal comes along, grab it.

 

[rsmithsr50]

I think this is where quality of the glass enters the picture.
leica is way beyond kowa, and kowa is good.

More isn't always better.

Had the Kowa 77mm/82mm with the LER eyepiece, but eventually settled on an older Leica Televid 62mm angled body with a 20X eyepiece. Thing is, with that 20X eyepiece (for the 77mm body) on that 62mm body, it was only SIXTEEN power. What did that buy me? A field of view that was incredible and a depth of field better than anything I had ever looked through. I cannot recall how many targets I could see at 1000yds, but it was a bunch. I could see changes coming a loooong way off. What is more is that with that depth of field, I could see mirage better than anything I had ever looked through. The clarity edge to edge was awesome. My ability to pick up on finite changes in mirage was enhanced using this setup over any Kowa.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I understood this post up to the "resolve bullet holes". The extended eye relief is to avoid scrunching down on the eyepiece. You won't be seeing bullet holes at 600 yards or more with 25 power. The scope is to see spotters from your pit service if not using electronic targets. Rotation is important to make adjustment and viewing easier so position can be maintained. Have someone help when first setting up so you can see without too much movement. After the initial setup you should know a very close starting position and then be able to do your own setup.

 

[DR_2297]

I would opt for a 663 with XD glass and the 25 LER over the 82SV for the couple of hundred difference. With either (zoom or fixed lens) you will be hard pressed to see holes in the black at 300 or further unless at Perry with the sky behind you. I have the 883 (which carries a hefty price tag) with 20-60X zoom and most days It is hard to see holes at 300 outside of perry but the mirage dissection capabilities are phenomenal.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I think this is where quality of the glass enters the picture.
leica is way beyond kowa, and kowa is good.

Depends on which Kowa you're talking about.