Sorting Brass by Weight

[MMH]

I am sorting some once fired LC 5.56 brass by weight. Most of the brass is within a 1 gr. variance for a given year, but there is more variance going from year to year. For example, for 2017 brass, it ranges from 95.1 to 95.0 gr., but the 2013 brass ranges from 96.3 to 96.8. In addition, the brass has not been sized or trimmed. A trimming .015" off will reduce the weight by 0.24 gr.

At this point I only weight a small sample has been weighed, and not all of the brass has been sorted by year. Would it be better to sort by weight than year? If so, I would deprime, size and trim the brass before I weigh it. How tight should all the 'weight classes' be? I am thinking about something like 0.3 gr.

BTW, my objective is to develop 1/2 moa @ 600 yard loads.

 

[JRS]

If you are going to rely on weight, you need to de-prime, size and trim before weighing. As long as the case capacity is close, don't worry about the weight.

 

[MMH]

If you are going to rely on weight, you need to de-prime, size and trim before weighing. As long as the case capacity is close, don't worry about the weight.

So by not relying on weight you are saying to measure volume (i.e. water weight) - correct? Weight would be easier. Would it be much less accurate than volume if I de-prime, size & trim?

 

[JRS]

So by not relying on weight you are saying to measure volume (i.e. water weight) - correct? Weight would be easier. Would it be much less accurate than volume if I de-prime, size & trim?

Yes, weighing it would be easier, but too many variables can affect the weight.

 

[retired]

or just buy some better brass.
lc brass is not consistent , not across the board nor with in a year.
fine brass for blasting, but not my choice for target work.
weigh the brass, clean, sized trim to length deprime first.
use your .3 tolerance. then see what happens on the target.
you should be good to go for 1/2 moa if you and the rifle are up to it.

 

[jepp2]

FWIW, I weight sort some of my brass within a manufacturer. As best I have been able to tell, it makes zero difference on the target. I deal mostly with small stuff (222, 223, etc.). When there is a big difference between different brands the results could be different.

When I have weight sorted Lapua 223 brass, I have found the variation to be about the same as LC. Lapua is nice brass, but I wasn't impressed with the weight consistency.

 

[MMH]

or just buy some better brass.
lc brass is not consistent , not across the board nor with in a year.
fine brass for blasting, but not my choice for target work.
weigh the brass, clean, sized trim to length deprime first.
use your .3 tolerance. then see what happens on the target.
you should be good to go for 1/2 moa if you and the rifle are up to it.

No doubt, I would be better served by better brass. At the same time, I don't want to take a bunch of good brass & lose half of it out in the field shooting PD's, plinking, etc. Saying that, if I cannot get 'good enough' accuracy than it would not be worth it. I am calling 'good enough' as 1/2 moa out of the ammo.

My rifle is good for 1/2 moa. Me, not so much (especially in field conditions). With 1/2 moa ammo, hoping that I can shoot at 1 to 2 moa in the field.

 

[jds holler]

I think that most of us, when we consider weighing brass in the interests of improving accuracy, have gone into the zone of diminishing returns.

There are so many other variables that likely affect accuracy more than case weight, or even case volume.

I have been purposely trying old skanky brass with my 20-222 lately just to see what kind of accuracy I can expect for squirrel loads. The only sorting I've done is to keep within one brand. (Winchester) Beyond that, my batch have been fired anywhere from one to twenty times. They have been necked down from .224 to .204, some after a long life as 222 shells, others immediately from new 222 to 20's. They have never been annealed, neck turned, or primer pockets uniformed. Nor have they been recently cleaned.

I took a bunch of these "bastard brass" out with the same loads the other day and shot five, 5 shot groups on the same target. Every group except one printed under .5", and the one that didn't missed the mark by only a smidge.

I'm thinking that I'm not going to justify spending a major amount of time on weighing, sorting or otherwise improving my batch for this particular purpose. -- (squirrel shooters) jd

 

[retired]

yes it all depends on your version of ACCURACY.
in most of my world it is just as small as i can get.
a 600/1000yd 300 wm br rifle that shoots .31/.32 at 200 yds
a custom ar10 that shoots very small( 0.116 is its smallest)
a custom ar15 that shoots 50 gr vmax's right at 0.2
so i tend to look at things in the very fine details.
1/2" is a bad day for me.

I think that most of us, when we consider weighing brass in the interests of improving accuracy, have gone into the zone of diminishing returns.

There are so many other variables that likely affect accuracy more than case weight, or even case volume.

I have been purposely trying old skanky brass with my 20-222 lately just to see what kind of accuracy I can expect for squirrel loads. The only sorting I've done is to keep within one brand. (Winchester) Beyond that, my batch have been fired anywhere from one to twenty times. They have been necked down from .224 to .204, some after a long life as 222 shells, others immediately from new 222 to 20's. They have never been annealed, neck turned, or primer pockets uniformed. Nor have they been recently cleaned.

I took a bunch of these "bastard brass" out with the same loads the other day and shot five, 5 shot groups on the same target. Every group except one printed under .5", and the one that didn't missed the mark by only a smidge.

I'm thinking that I'm not going to justify spending a major amount of time on weighing, sorting or otherwise improving my batch for this particular purpose. -- (squirrel shooters) jd

 

[a1712]

By the time you've invested all this time you could just buy Lapua brass and be done with it. My time is to valuable to waste it trying to make a sows ear into a silk purse. Oh I do it all the time. I just prepped 500-17 Fed. LC Cases that measured really well from the start, they were all the same lot though. Can't tell you how much time I've put into, flash hole deburring, pocket uniforming, neck turning, trimming, and after they're fired I'll do the pockets again. I'm retired and OCD so I enjoy it. Brian.

 

[MMH]

By the time you've invested all this time you could just buy Lapua brass and be done with it. My time is to valuable to waste it trying to make a sows ear into a silk purse. Oh I do it all the time. I just prepped 500-17 Fed. LC Cases that measured really well from the start, they were all the same lot though. Can't tell you how much time I've put into, flash hole deburring, pocket uniforming, neck turning, trimming, and after they're fired I'll do the pockets again. I'm retired and OCD so I enjoy it. Brian.

The time is not that bad if you do things as a batch process. On 1000 cases, I can punch the primer out & swage the pocket in an three hours, debur the flash hole (inside & out) and uniform the primer pocket in four hours, anneal the case mouths in a two hours, size the case in two hours, trim & chamfer the case mouths in four hours, and finally, weigh and sort in another two hours. So, spending a weekend on brass prep, I can have a 1000 cases ready to load.

Sure, it may not be as good as Lapua, but the cases cost me $80 and not $700.

 

[shoot4fun]

From past experience I can say there is nothing more disappointing than spending the time to sort and match prep brass, testing against brass that hasn't been fussed over and finding out the same components shoot 2X better in the brass you spent no extra time on. In my opinion, weigh sorting is a waste of time.

 

[MMH]

From past experience I can say there is nothing more disappointing than spending the time to sort and match prep brass, testing against brass that hasn't been fussed over and finding out the same components shoot 2X better in the brass you spent no extra time on. In my opinion, weigh sorting is a waste of time.

Understood. You are probably correct. Figure that I will do it once, and if the outcome is what you say, write off weight sorting as a wast of time. I probably will go thru the exercise for once just to prove it for myself.

 

[Beau]

The US Army Marksmanship Unit says: "After significant full-distance machine-rest and shoulder-fired testing, we determined that we could safely increase the weight range of LC match brass lots to 1.0 gr."
https://www.facebook.com/USAMU1956/...148034.251278279733/10156380657179734/?type=3

 

[MMH]

The US Army Marksmanship Unit says: "After significant full-distance machine-rest and shoulder-fired testing, we determined that we could safely increase the weight range of LC match brass lots to 1.0 gr."
https://www.facebook.com/USAMU1956/...148034.251278279733/10156380657179734/?type=3

Thank You!!! Read the link. Good read and specifically addresses my question. Can't beat results based on 50K or 60K cases! I will weigh them and it will be easy enough to sort even down to 0.3 gr. (after all, I will weigh all the cases, so throwing them into the correct bin will not be that hard).

Thanks again!

 

[ireload2]

Just weigh all your cases grouped by headstamp and year.

Then graph the results. You will find some number of light and heavy cases on the right and left end of the graph.

Your best cases will be in the middle of the distribution.

You can then make your own informed decision.
You will know the quality of your brass.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

According to your disclipline you may be ok with the AMU recommendation- how accurate do they have to be to win their particular game? People always quote the experts in their field when its usually 3 pastures away. What i mean is when a game can be won by shooting 2moa and you need to shoot .5 moa can you follow their methods? Can a benchrest shooter get his load data and techniques from a sling shooter? Sometimes you gotta see what the end result is from the guy giving advice. Skeet shooters dont coach benchrest shooters and that goes the other way too.

 

[ronemus]

I did an experiment several years ago to determine just how much effect brass weight has on .223 loads. I used WW brass (sized, trimmed and deburred, primer pockets uniformed, flash holes deburred, and neck turned) , WSR primers, charges of RL-15 or N-550 powder weighed to 0.1 gr, and 75 gr A-Max bullets. Using the lightest and heaviest cases (sorted from 1000 once-fired I had on hand), I had two lots of 10 cases with a 3 gr difference in weight. The average muzzle velocity difference was 16 fps, just a bit more than the 12 fps due to 0.1 gr of powder. I choose to sort 0.5 gr lots of .223 brass for my long range loads, but the effect will only matter at 800-1000 yards - the vertical displacement on the target from such a small velocity change is negligible at shorter distances. Unless you control all other sources of variation, the effect of brass weight is negligible. I also shoot .284, and because the brass is twice as heavy I batch in 1 gr lots.

 

[hikfromstik]

Go buy a few bags of Winchester 223 brass and call it a day . I bought 3 bags. I still load my plinking RDS with LC , but my eyes aren't good enough to sort the years . If your wanting 1/2 moa groups then Lapua or norma/nosler may be the route .

 

[MMH]

Just weigh all your cases grouped by headstamp and year.

Then graph the results. You will find some number of light and heavy cases on the right and left end of the graph.

Your best cases will be in the middle of the distribution.

You can then make your own informed decision.
You will know the quality of your brass.

I think that I will sort by weight. Do you think that sorting by year makes a difference? I initially was just going to sort by year, but now am leaning towards sorting weight & forgetting the year. If I try to do both would get to be a logistical nightmare, not to mention there will be 'weight classes' in certain years that do not have enough cases.

I will load and the first five rounds of each group put on a Magnetospeed & ultimately chart velocity against weight. Ultimately long range accuracy to a great extent gets back to minimizing velocity spread.

Wow, that's going to be allot of work just to save a few bucks. Then again, I think that I will have far more insight on case weight.