Some thoughts/information on PayPal gift/friends-family

[XTR]

I see a lot of folks who post stuff for sale request that you use PP gift/friends-family to pay. Obviously they do this to avoid paying the 3% fee. I've personally never done this. I always add the 3%m to the total if I'm going to use PP.

Other than the fact that this is ever so slightly dishonest, and if you use a bank acct for funding PP gets no fee on the transaction it puts you, the buyer, at substantial risk.

Now a little story that is playing out right now to illustrate that. I am the owner/admin of a cigar BB (onlinehumidor.com) that much like this board has a very active "for sale" section. About 15 days ago someone posted up a bunch of very hard to find, and very good, and expensive cigars at what was a good, but not immediately unbelievable price. Kind of like someone posting up a new NF Comp for $1750, screaming deal, but not impossible.

Well it seems that a lot of people jumped on the opportunity, and all was good until deliveries didn't happen as expected and some guys started comparing tracking #s, and they were all the same. I don't know right now how many guys got burned, but the total haul is looking like it may be approaching $10k. This was from an account/poster with a 5 yr track record and fabulous feedback, not some new guy who just popped up.

Now the bad news, all of them that used PP gift (seems like all of them at this point) are getting the "we're sorry, it was a gift, there is nothing we can do" answer from PP.

There may be some recourse if the PP charge went to a CC and the buyer can contact them with the fraud/didn't receive goods claim, but that's an end around that may or may not work. We're waiting to see how that one turns out.

Some guys are looking into another alternative with PP and their fraud department, and PP seems to be playing along, but that's probably because it's going to be a group of charges to one acct.

Bottom line, if you send money by PP gift, it's a gift, you have no recourse.

 

[mr45man]

I no longer use Pay Pal and would not recommend them.
But if you lie like Hillary to save a few bucks that is what you deserve.

 

[Corey Schwanz]

I'll use the gift method when its truly something to a family member or very close friend that I see regularly. If its just someone from online, a few extra dollars for the protection is well worth it to me.

Now if we could just get people to stop with the "paypal, add 3%" crap, haha. Just mark up your price by 4% and say you'll eat the cost as the seller or give a "discount" to a check or money or cash.

 

[nmkid]

I use PayPal as much as I can. The % is no big deal. If I have to send a M.O. it will cost a minimum of $1.20 plus my time and gas to drive 10 miles round trip to the P.O. Pay the %, your item is on it's way, (sometimes the same day) and you are protected.

 

[22DASHER]

PayPal is my preferred method as well. Lets face it, you can get scammed no matter the method…

 

[dragman]

I use it a lot. If I am buying from someone I know is good I will do it either way only. I don't expect someone to negotiate a deal then eat the 3% too.

 

[SteveOak]

Other than the fact that this is ever so slightly dishonest.....

LOL Ever so slightly.

When you send money by PalPal you have to answer a question about it being a gift so first one must lie. If you answer that it is a gift when in fact it is a purchase it is now fraud.

I avoid dealing with people that want to use PayPal gift for a purchase. If they will steal from someone they will steal from anyone.

I don't use PayPal for anything gun related anyway. PayPal says in their user agreement that it is not to be used for gun related purchases.

Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.
2. relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial intolerance or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

That can mean a lot of things and I don't rely on anti-gun people to know, care about or understand the specifics of my transaction.

What are "certain firearm parts or accessories?" Is a grip a "certain part", how about a stock, holster, brass? I don't care to find out the hard way.

I was flying from Minneapolis to Phoenix with a rifle stock in my bag. We had to get three people and a manager to explain to the ticket counter person that is was a piece of fiberglass, not a gun.

I have read of PayPal shutting down peoples accounts because of "(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories". I use my PayPal account for certain things and do not want to lose it if there is a problem with a transaction and I need to use the Buyer Protection only to have PayPal decide that the holster I paid for was an "accessory" and I lose my money and my PayPal account.

Yes, you can buy a holster on eBay and pay for it with PayPal. Think "liberal, protected class, special snowflake, the law applies to you, not to me."

I was selling a scale. I stated in the ad to add 3% + $.50 for PayPal. The slickster sent the payment by "Gift". "I saved us the PayPal fees." No, you lost the scale. I refunded the payment and refused to sell him the scale. It was a nice scale and I sold it cheap, but not to him.

 

[284winner]

3% is cheap insurance tho. I'll pay the extra on top of whatever deal I've negotiated. If all of us that use pay pal for payment take that extra measure, we won't be taken by the predators looking to prey on the trusting guys that use this site.

 

[dickn52]

PP knows the difference. When they audit their transactions and see 45 'gifts' from 45 people all going to one guys account for the same amount....trust me they know.

 

[Milo 2.0]

LOL Ever so slightly.

When you send money by PalPal you have to answer a question about it being a gift so first one must lie. If you answer that it is a gift when in fact it is a purchase it is now fraud.

I avoid dealing with people that want to use PayPal gift for a purchase. If they will steal from someone they will steal from anyone.

I don't use PayPal for anything gun related anyway. PayPal says in their user agreement that it is not to be used for gun related purchases.

Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.
2. relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial intolerance or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

That can mean a lot of things and I don't rely on anti-gun people to know, care about or understand the specifics of my transaction.

What are "certain firearm parts or accessories?" Is a grip a "certain part", how about a stock, holster, brass? I don't care to find out the hard way.

I was flying from Minneapolis to Phoenix with a rifle stock in my bag. We had to get three people and a manager to explain to the ticket counter person that is was a piece of fiberglass, not a gun.

I have read of PayPal shutting down peoples accounts because of "(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories". I use my PayPal account for certain things and do not want to lose it if there is a problem with a transaction and I need to use the Buyer Protection only to have PayPal decide that the holster I paid for was an "accessory" and I lose my money and my PayPal account.

Yes, you can buy a holster on eBay and pay for it with PayPal. Think "liberal, protected class, special snowflake, the law applies to you, not to me."

I was selling a scale. I stated in the ad to add 3% + $.50 for PayPal. The slickster sent the payment by "Gift". "I saved us the PayPal fees." No, you lost the scale. I refunded the payment and refused to sell him the scale. It was a nice scale and I sold it cheap, but not to him.

Venmo is sub group of paypal, same services, very gun friendly.

 

[SteveOak]

Venmo user agreement

13. Acceptable Use

You agree you will not use the Venmo Services to violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation relating to sales of:

• counterfeit goods;
• narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety;
• drug paraphernalia;
• items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity;
• items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime;
• items that are considered obscene;
• items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction;
• certain sexually oriented materials or services;
• ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories; or
• certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law;

Word for word copy of PayPal's.

 

[Cold Bore]

Now if we could just get people to stop with the "paypal, add 3%" crap, haha. Just mark up your price by 4% and say you'll eat the cost as the seller or give a "discount" to a check or money or cash.

Really, what's the difference?

Are you really "eating the cost" if you have intentionally marked it up to cover that cost?

Most sellers want to deal in round numbers as their net, and the ad just reads cleaner with those round numbers. I'd laugh if I saw something listed for $104, or $156, or $312.

Maybe the wording sounds better to you in one direction (getting a "discount"), but the end result is exactly the same.

 

[Jdne5b]

Venmo user agreement

13. Acceptable Use

You agree you will not use the Venmo Services to violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation relating to sales of:

• counterfeit goods;
• narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety;
• drug paraphernalia;
• items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity;
• items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime;
• items that are considered obscene;
• items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction;
• certain sexually oriented materials or services;
• ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories; or
• certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law;

Word for word copy of PayPal's.

Read it again. It's not even close to being word for word.

Paypal:
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: relate to transactions involving... (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories,...

Venmo:
You agree you will not use the Venmo Services to violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation relating to sales of:ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories

Paypal you can't use them in transactions involving (J)
Venmo you can't use them to violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation relating to sales of:ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories

 

[Corey Schwanz]

Really, what's the difference?

Are you really "eating the cost" if you have intentionally marked it up to cover that cost?

Most sellers want to deal in round numbers as their net, and the ad just reads cleaner with those round numbers. I'd laugh if I saw something listed for $104, or $156, or $312.

Maybe the wording sounds better to you in one direction (getting a "discount"), but the end result is exactly the same.

There isn't a difference, other than how its worded, and that's the point. Its just a pet peeve of mine to see "$100. paypal plus 3%." To me, I'd rather just say "$105 shipped" and be done with it. When I see a post asking for extra money for paypal transactions, I tend to skip right over them unless its a screaming good deal or something that I really, really need at the moment.

 

[SteveOak]

Read it again. It's not even close to being word for word.

Paypal:
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: relate to transactions involving... (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories,...

Venmo:
You agree you will not use the Venmo Services to violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation relating to sales of:ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories

Paypal you can't use them in transactions involving (J)
Venmo you can't use them to violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation relating to sales of:ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories

You are correct. I did not read the conditional wording.

Of course the bolded part is word for word.

 

[perry42]

I do not use PayPal but pay using USPS money orders unless the money is less than $50 then I send cash.

perry42

 

[ED3]

In regards to PayPal's 'firearms' policy: it's interesting, given PayPal is a subsidiary of eBay... ebay has a policy that you MUST accept PayPay to list on ebay, and there are many thousand 'gun parts' on ebay; everything I suspect except receivers and ammo...

 

[SDDasher]

I see a lot of folks who post stuff for sale request that you use PP gift/friends-family to pay. Obviously they do this to avoid paying the 3% fee. I've personally never done this. I always add the 3%m to the total if I'm going to use PP.

Other than the fact that this is ever so slightly dishonest, and if you use a bank acct for funding PP gets no fee on the transaction it puts you, the buyer, at substantial risk.

Now a little story that is playing out right now to illustrate that. I am the owner/admin of a cigar BB (onlinehumidor.com) that much like this board has a very active "for sale" section. About 15 days ago someone posted up a bunch of very hard to find, and very good, and expensive cigars at what was a good, but not immediately unbelievable price. Kind of like someone posting up a new NF Comp for $1750, screaming deal, but not impossible.

Well it seems that a lot of people jumped on the opportunity, and all was good until deliveries didn't happen as expected and some guys started comparing tracking #s, and they were all the same. I don't know right now how many guys got burned, but the total haul is looking like it may be approaching $10k. This was from an account/poster with a 5 yr track record and fabulous feedback, not some new guy who just popped up.

Now the bad news, all of them that used PP gift (seems like all of them at this point) are getting the "we're sorry, it was a gift, there is nothing we can do" answer from PP.

There may be some recourse if the PP charge went to a CC and the buyer can contact them with the fraud/didn't receive goods claim, but that's an end around that may or may not work. We're waiting to see how that one turns out.

Some guys are looking into another alternative with PP and their fraud department, and PP seems to be playing along, but that's probably because it's going to be a group of charges to one acct.

Bottom line, if you send money by PP gift, it's a gift, you have no recourse.

Or, bottom line could,would,should be; Don't use Pay Pal. I stopped using their services years ago after my account was emptied via PP who then refused to do ANYTHING to assist in the retrieval of the fraud. Luckily my bank had my back. PP is involved in a class action lawsuit currently for less than legal actions against their members. JMTCW.