Soft seating (John Whidden)

[urbanrifleman]

"For the “Any sights, Any Rifle” and “Iron Sights, Any Rifle” stages of the Long-Range Championship, John used three different .243 Win rifles. He shoots the same load in all his .243s: Berger 105gr VLD bullets (moly-coated) with N160 powder and PMC (Russian) primers. The bullets are seated very long, with about .001″ neck tension, so the bullets “soft-seat” themselves into the rifling as he closes the bolt. This way he can use the same ammo in different guns and the bullets always find the same seating depth relative to the rifling."

How come no one ever mentions doing this on the forum?

 

[Marksman63]

It’s a chance that the same combo/seating depth works well in all his rifles. But this is non the rule, IMHO

 

[urbanrifleman]

He is a pretty good shooter... hahaha Tubb did the same thing when he was dominating.

 

[gme]

I've been doing this on my Palma rifles for years

 

[urbanrifleman]

I've been doing this on my Palma rifles for years

Hey Gary!!! It makes total sense to me, and I know it is pretty common across the cousre and in the sling world but not in the F Class or BR world. Interesting.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

With the use of VLD bullets that would probably work well in a lot of rifles. Most of the rifles I shoot in matches are mostly using hybrid bullets that actually seem to prefer a bit of jump so this method would not work too great in this case.

 

[memilanuk]

It works pretty well... until you have to eject a loaded round, for whatever reason. Then sometimes it works, and sometimes you get an action full of powder.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

With the use of VLD bullets that would probably work well in a lot of rifles. Most of the rifles I shoot in matches are mostly using hybrid bullets that actually seem to prefer a bit of jump so this method would not work too great in this case.

Yup, only rifle I shoot VLDs in I soft seat and it works really well, all the rest eat Hybrids and enjoy a bit of airtime. Also what milanuk said, it sucks when you forget that you should not to eject your round...

 

[Tim Singleton]

Hey Gary!!! It makes total sense to me, and I know it is pretty common across the cousre and in the sling world but not in the F Class or BR world. Interesting.

I think you just have to find what works for the discipline you choose
For the raw accuracy required for the shooting John Whidden does a 243 is great and works very well for him with this loading method
I think if he chose to shoot BR or Fclass it would be quite different

 

[dkhunt14]

Hey Gary!!! It makes total sense to me, and I know it is pretty common across the cousre and in the sling world but not in the F Class or BR world. Interesting.

In BR you are shooting faster. If a bullet hits on the way in, it will be pushed shorter. Also I shoot VLD's and they like it .010 to .015 in. That is where they shoot best and you can't get that with little tension. The difference in accuracy needed isn't the same. Matt

 

[urbanrifleman]

In BR you are shooting faster. If a bullet hits on the way in, it will be pushed shorter. Also I shoot VLD's and they like it .010 to .015 in. That is where they shoot best and you can't get that with little tension. The difference in accuracy needed isn't the same. Matt

i have been watching videos of long range BR and its crazy. They are not even looking most of the time!!! Now i see why they would get crazy about bolt fall...

 

[INShooter]

I shoot a 6PPC a bunch. Different barrels, different powders, different bullets. I have found that "soft seating" is a very good way to get real close to the best seating depth. Usually +or- 2 or 3 thousandths from there is the best. After I find that, I do use regular neck tension because I don't want to pull the bullet if I have to extract a loaded round.

 

[memilanuk]

I don't know about Palma, but in F-class one of the last things a team captain or coach ever wants to hear from a shooter during a match is "I can't eject the round in the gun" when needed, whether due to a range-wide cease-fire, or because we had to hold up because of a condition change and don't want to cook the round. A lot of ranges will *not* let you tip the gun up to try and contain the powder spill, because it would mean that the gun (with a live round in there) would likely be pointing above the impact area.

 

[Loggins J]

It works pretty well... until you have to eject a loaded round, for whatever reason. Then sometimes it works, and sometimes you get an action full of powder.

Get a can of compressed air from a office supplies to blow out the excess powder you leave in the chamber and action

 

[spclark]

This way he can use the same ammo in different guns and the bullets always find the same seating depth relative to the rifling."

How come no one ever mentions doing this on the forum?

'Cause John knows it works fine for him while others here maybe aren't as positive of the results were they to do the same!

Beside the fact that I find my rifles (many of which sport barrels fitted by John) generally shoot just fine with bullets seated 0.020" off the lands than when the rounds they're being fed are seated to engage the rifling upon chambering... it's a personal preference.

 

[morpheus]

Just FYI, I think the info in the original post is outdated.

To quote the more recent article linked below:

He found the right handload: “I use Lapua brass, PMC primers (Russian, similar to Wolf), Vihtavuori N160 single-base powder, and Berger 105-grain Hybrid bullets. I switched to the Hybrid bullets at the beginning of 2015. Previously I shot the 105-grain Berger hunting VLDs. During testing, I found that the Hybrids were just as accurate without having to seat the bullet into the lands. The velocity of this combination when shot through the excellent Bartlein 5R barrels (32-inch) is around 3275 fps.”

One seating depth for multiple loads: “Additional details of the load include the fact that the bullets are jumping from .035- to .060-inch. I only use one seating depth for ammunition for multiple guns and the bullets jump further in the worn barrels than in the fresh barrels. The bullets are pointed up in our Bullet Pointing Die System and are moly-coated. The moly does extend the cleaning interval a little bit, probably 20 percent or so. The Lapua .243 Win. brass is all neck turned to .0125-inch thickness.”

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017...wsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1017

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have tried it. It works well and the accuracy was acceptable, but it certainly gave up accuracy to the best jump or jam load. Its real easy to see how neck tension could make for inconsistent seating depths of soft seated. For some matches it may just be the way to go, especially if your wanting to use multiple rifles with one load.

 

[dedogs]

Didn't Virgil King soft seat by hand in the Houston Warehouse? dedogs

 

[jamesdmock]

Didn't Virgil Knight soft seat by hand in the Houston Warehouse? dedogs

Virgil King did "something to get his loads to "arc" ....whatever that means.

 

[ngb1787]

Agree with Alex, I have tried also, accuracy was good but gained tighter groups by seating out.