Small primer vs large in .308 win

[muleman69]

Is it worth it to go to a small primer in the .308 or does it make a difference? If so what would be a good choice of brass?

 

[LVLAaron]

Alpha, Peterson, Lapua, Starline (which is surprisingly consistent, as good or better than lapua, but I haven't ever tested how many firings it's good for)

 

[Patton243]

Alpha, Peterson, Lapua, Starline (which is surprisingly consistent, as good or better than lapua, but I haven't ever tested how many firings it's good for)

I beg to differ that Starline is as good or better than Lapua. It’s good brass, but not to the same level as Lapua.

In reference to the small primer I use the Lapua Palma in my 308 and I noticed a better standard deviation spread with my loads from the large primer. I would go Lapua Palma or you can try Peterson with the small rifle primer. I use the CCI mag small rifle primers. Also, the small rifle primer pockets are hard to wear out. The large rifle will get blown out at some point. In the long run the small rifle is a better investment financially too.

 

[Papa Charlie]

I have heard that the small rifle primer cases are stronger with the basis being that you have more metal to make it stronger. But I have been using nothing but large rifle primers in my Lapua brass. Annealing my brass each time it is fired I have cases that have been fired 23 or 24 times with little affect. True I have over pressured during load testing and caused some primer pockets to open up but that has cost me only 2 cases over the number of firings.
As to which primer (small vs large) provides the best performance on paper, I don't have any reliable information, nor have I seen any definitive analytical testing that says one is better over the other.

 

[Ned Ludd]

With proper load development, it is usually possible to tune a good load with either large or small rifle primers. The BIG advantage of SRP (Palma) brass as mentioned by Papa Charlie is that it has significantly more metal surrounding the primer pocket, and can therefore take much higher pressure, for a greater number of firings, than standard (LRP) .308 Win brass.

There is also an additional variable to consider when selecting SRP brass. Lapua Palma brass uses the smaller (.059") flashhole. Some other manufacturers of quality .308 SRP brass use the larger (.080") flashhole, same as with LRP brass. I believe Alpha and Peterson? SRP brass may both use the larger flashhole. As I recall, according to their referenced test results, the larger flashhole actually gave slightly better ES/SD values. Again, it should be possible to tune a good load with large or small primers, and large or small flashhole brass. But the final load parameters with a given bullet and powder may well be noticeably different depending on which primer/flashhole you are using.

 

[Stumpy1]

I can verify that Peterson .308 small primer brass uses the 0.059" flashhole -recent lot (this spring).

Hope this helps.

Frank

 

[LVLAaron]

I beg to differ that Starline is as good or better than Lapua. It’s good brass, but not to the same level as Lapua.

Based on? As I said, I don't run them very often in .308, but in other calibers starline rifle brass is the most H20 capacity consistent stuff I've found. Might just be because they're a new manufacturer and their forming dies haven't worn out yet... but hey, can't argue with the numbers.

 

[Patton243]

Based on? As I said, I don't run them very often in .308, but in other calibers starline rifle brass is the most H20 capacity consistent stuff I've found. Might just be because they're a new manufacturer and their forming dies haven't worn out yet... but hey, can't argue with the numbers.

There’s plenty of threads in reference to brass manufacturers and the consensus is Lapua is a superior product to Starline. I don’t see too many people at Palma shoots, or any competition shooting for that matter, using Starline over Lapua or Peterson etc. You want to use Starline brass because of H20 capacity go for it. Last time I checked you don’t fill cases with water but powder instead. Good luck.

 

[Tempest]

3rd season of FTR matches (around 6-8/year) using Lapua small primer and 200g Bergers. Primers were loose after 5-6 running the LR primers previously.

 

[LVLAaron]

There’s plenty of threads in reference to brass manufacturers and the consensus is Lapua is a superior product to Starline. I don’t see too many people at Palma shoots, or any competition shooting for that matter, using Starline over Lapua or Peterson etc. You want to use Starline brass because of H20 capacity go for it. Last time I checked you don’t fill cases with water but powder instead. Good luck.

I said Starline is the most consistent brass I've measured. Isn't consistency what we chase?

 

[Jdne5b]

Starline has only been making bottle neck rifle brass for a few years. They dont have the fanboy base that Lapua does.

The Starline 5.56 Im using right now is very, very good. Is it better than Lapua .223? I don't know, but I know that the Lapua would have blown out pockets where the Starline hasnt. So, even if its not as good, I cant shoot the difference. I'll take equal quality, made in USA, for less money, any chance I can get.

 

[LVLAaron]

Starline has only been making bottle neck rifle brass for a few years. They dont have the fanboy base that Lapua does.

The Starline 5.56 Im using right now is very, very good. Is it better than Lapua .223? I don't know, but I know that the Lapua would have blown out pockets where the Starline hasnt. So, even if its not as good, I cant shoot the difference. I'll take equal quality, made in USA, for less money, any chance I can get.

FYI Starline states that their 5.56 and 223 brass is the exact same capacity/dimensions, just different metallurgy to strengthen the case.

Edit: I know there's only 5 measurements for LC brass. I've only ever used LC "second hand" - The stuff I have is beat pretty hard, I only use it for short range 3 gun type shooting, so I wasn't super concerned with the measurements.

 

[Jdne5b]

FYI Starline states that their 5.56 and 223 brass is the exact same capacity/dimensions, just different metallurgy to strengthen the case.

Thats why Im using the 5.56, for tougher primer pockets.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thats why Im using the 5.56, for tougher primer pockets.

Is it working? Or have you not yet put sufficient firings on the brass to tell? I can tell you that the years of getting 3-4 firings from Lapua .223 brass got old a long time ago .

 

[Jdne5b]

Is it working? Or have you not yet put sufficient firings on the brass to tell? I can tell you that the years of getting 3-4 firings from Lapua .223 brass got old a long time ago .

Tougher vs Starline .223. Im still working out if it lasts longer than Lapua, but I would have lost Lapua by now and havent lost any Starline. Even if its a wash, they are much cheaper.

 

[6fatrat]

If you are talking about a 308 used in matches, small primer Lapua brass.
If you are talking a hunting rifle use what you have.
Steve Bair

 

[Ned Ludd]

Tougher vs Starline .223. Im still working out if it lasts longer than Lapua, but I would have lost Lapua by now and havent lost any Starline. Even if its a wash, they are much cheaper.

Nice to know, thanks! I purchased 1000 pcs of virgin Lake City brass with the same idea in mind a few years ago. The LC brass is supposed to be tough as nails in the casehead region. For a variety of reasons however, primarily including indolence and sloth, I have yet to load any rounds in those cases.

 

[D-4297]

Context matters ...A lot . Depends on the discipline . And which part of the country you're in . Most major F class meets , Lapua SRP is the hands-down winner . So why would that be ? Lapua has a proven record of performance and consistency , strength and longevity . Lapua didn't become the "Benchmark" for F-Class shooters without a reason . Perhaps Peterson and some of the others will make in-roads into the Lapua market , but they'll have to prove their product is as good , or better , First ! It's got nothing to do with "Nationalism" , either . It has to do with points . If Peterson or some of the others were proven to be as good as Lapua , the three young ladies who swept the U-25 Open Div. would be using it . Knowing them personally , I happen to know they load Lapua . As does most of the U.S. Teams . It's about performance .

 

[Laurie]

In Europe, serious F/TR competitors almost invariably use the Lapua SRP 'Palma' version. There are several reasons, but case strength / life loom large. It's also produced interest in shoulder / neck annealing in that with the loads normally employed, LRP brass, irrespective of make, didn't last enough firings for people to worry about brass hardening. Three, four firings, five at best, and the case went in the bin. Now they go on into double figures.

People run some serious loads and pressures too over here. 2,800-2,830 fps is the norm from 185s from a 30-inch barrel, 2,700 fps + with 200s.

There are no free lunches in internal ballistics though. Case life may have improved dramatically, but it has been at the expense of barrels. Not much over 2,000 rounds is common and sometimes the barrel is scrap at under that figure. (And, that's with us pair-shooting in the UK, not strings. So the rate of fire is considerably lower, and we generally shoot in much lower ambient temperatures too.)