Small primer pocket gauging on the cheap

[BoydAllen]

I have some recently (within the last year) purchased Norma 6PPC cases that seem to be a bit soft. Remembering back to when they introduced the improvement in this caliber of double struck heads. I am disappointed. The first time that I used them I was doing some testing that apparently was at more pressure than some of them liked, so that when I reprimed the cases for the next go round some of the primers went in easier than I am accustomed to. They were not cheap. I am not happy. Anyway, not wanting to discover any further pocket expansion by seating primers, I did some research about gauges that are available, and also looked into methods for tightening loose pockets. In one of the videos on that, the fellow used a pin gauge to check if the pockets were tight enough, tap, test, repeat. I knew that I could buy individual pin gauges on Amazon for a ridiculously cheap price, so I set about finding out the dimensions of primer pockets and primers.. From that research, It seemed that a .175 gauge might be what I needed find my loose pockets. Today it arrived, and I set about testing my set of fifty cases, and found almost 20 that the pin would fit all the way into. These are going to be my test cases for subsiquent tightening experimentation. Afterword I did a little measuring with a .0001 mic. The pin gauge measures a uniform .1748, and the Federal 205 primer I measured is .1752, a difference of .0004. My next task will be to locate a half inch bearing ball and a suitable bolt to be squared off and polished down to a slip fit in my sized case necks. I will aslo need something to keep the ball from rolling around on my desk and denting it. I am thinking that a nut of suitable size, imbedded in a 2X4 scrap shoud do the job. In any case, I look forward to seeing just how well this method works. The cases cost well over a buck a piece, and one or two firings is a bit short of the service life I anticipated. (Yes, I called the distributor. Not the form that was promised did not show up in my email.) Wish me luck.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Good Luck.

 

[moondog]

Boyd, I ran into a similar issue with 6.5x55 Brass. I think I got scolded on this forum for asking about a fix for my obvious over pressure issue. Anyhow, I sectioned some pieces to inspect and measure. Mine were as new thickness near the base. I tried the ball bearing trick and wasn't getting good results. I ended up using a Stainless flair fitting chucked in my Vice.
I use a undersized diameter punch wrapped with painters tape to protect inside the neck. It takes a bit of practice with the hammer as to how hard to hit it and how many times. It has worked really well for Mine. I have fired them several times now without having to re-size the pockets. This is the only caliber/ lot of Brass I've ever gotten loose pockets.
It'll work.

 

[DHD]

I don't shoot a PPC, but I do shoot the PPC's children in AR's so take this for what it's worth.

I have been playing with the Grendel since 2009-2010 and now also play with the 6ARC. I have a natural preference for Lapua (or AA stamped Lapua) brass. Not inexpensive and an AR is not kind to brass, yet I have some pieces that have 15 warm loads on them. I only trash them when the primer pockets have had enough and that is rare. Enter Hornady (I only use them to load my son's hunting loads as I will never see them again) and Starline. Starline is good for what it is, but they will loosen up enough to notice around the 5 loads mark unlike Lapua.

I found this die not because of primer pockets, but because of a loose 6.5 Grendel chamber (another story). As a side benefit, I noticed after using the SOA Belt Buster die, that primer pockets stayed at a tolerable looseness. SOA is out of business but another company is making it called MTE Machining.

It is only made for the .441" casehead and only touches the bottom .200" or so. I use it as a pass through die and have to use some serious lube, but it brings all cases back to factory dimensions down low. As I use it every time, I started noticing primer pockets stayed consistent, if not factory fresh.

I do not know if this will help you because I am not familiar with how much growth a true PPC's casehead has due to it being fired in a tight custom action instead of an AR. I do know that my caseheads/rim does get sized back to .440ish and every case will chamber in my snug chambered Proof barrels.

Again, not sure this will help in your case, but just mentioning it as a possibility. As I like to have a spare, I ordered a new one from MTE this week as I knew Sgt or Arms had left the scene. I didn't realize the die was being made by another company until Tuesday. Shipped it was $65ish.

I do not know either SOA or MTE, I just like the die!

 

[SeabeeKen]

I shoot 22 PPC Norma brass and have had no problems with the brass after 14 reloadings this season. I stay within safe reloading data. I check mine using primer pocket go no-go gauges which work well for me. I also use very tight fitting primers.

Here are the gauges I use. https://ballistictools.com/store/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

 

[AlNyhus]

Boyd, for a ball I'd use this. You could put it in a block of aluminum and retain the shaft with a couple of set screws. That would give you a solid base to work from...no compression from a piece of wood. Would be a neat little project.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Bc'z]

Boyd, for a ball I'd use this. You could put it in a block of aluminum and retain the shaft with a couple of set screws. That would give you a solid base to work from...no compression from a piece of wood. Would be a neat little project.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Good shootin' -Al

I was wondering about using a chunk of lead for his lower anvil

 

[snert]

Bobby HArt used to make a primer pocket tightening tool, Hart and Sons.

 

[Fire Dog]

Boyd, for a ball I'd use this. You could put it in a block of aluminum and retain the shaft with a couple of set screws. That would give you a solid base to work from...no compression from a piece of wood. Would be a neat little project.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Good shootin' -Al

Thanks for that tip Al,
I have been using the ball bearing trick with a piece of hardwood {dent forms and “sort of” keeps the bearing in place} and having the round ball fixed int a base is absolutely a better way to go.
Many year ago there was a tool made to do this primer pocket fixing trick {basically adding a crimp} that apparently worked reasonably well until it broke… A sound idea but made with poor quality parts.
I first saw this idea on a utube video that I seem to have now lost the “Bookmark” for but it is out there in Cyber Land somewhere. It involved saving 300 Win Mag brass I seem to recall but I have used the ball bearing idea on both large and small primer pockets and just turn down grade 8 bolts to fit the case necks.
A slip fit and a flat base with a “learn as you go” technique of how hard/many strikes it takes to make them “good as new” will pay off and I do advise to use gages to check the fit.
I have a neat double ended one that is “fail” on one end and “factory” on the other end.
I aim for just barely able to fit the “factory” end into the primer pocket.
Brass then lasts till neck/shoulder problems start and then into the recycle bin…
BTW: I got a box of mixed diameter, hardened ball bearings off Amazon for less than $15 and it had the two sizes I wanted, one for large primers {1/2” and one for{3/8”} for small pockets.

 

[tommeboy]

I use the large primer swage rod to fix small pockets. And I made a special punch to fix the large pockets. works for me. I had to do this when the 350 legend first came out. There was no brass to reload other than the ammo you bought. And Win messed all of the first runs up and it stretched the pockets on the original load. So we just ended up taking all of the ammo apart and loaded it that way so the pockets were not blown out.

 

[BoydAllen]

After a little thought it occurred to me that since my PPC cases are less than 1.5 tall on the inside, and gauge pins are hardened and 2" long that for this application ordering a gauge pin to fit the inside of the necks was the easy option. It and ten half inch bearing balls came to a little under $10 delivered. After reading some of the posts, and given that the balls were on the way before the excellent suggestion about a better option was posted, I will probably drill and chamfer a hold in a piece of aluminum plate to rest the ball in and distribute the force. I will also probably buy a small number drill that is a very close fit to the flash holes to gauge with and possibly return them to spec. after working over the primer pockets, if needed.

 

[BoydAllen]

An inverted shell holder on a 4”x8” piece of 3/4” ply should position the ball and sufficiently distribute the force of the blows.

 

[cdgaydos]

I shoot 22 PPC Norma brass and have had no problems with the brass after 14 reloadings this season. I stay within safe reloading data. I check mine using primer pocket go no-go gauges which work well for me. I also use very tight fitting primers.

Here are the gauges I use. https://ballistictools.com/store/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

This is what I use for checking primer pockets on 223… let’s me know I have removed all the crimp on military brass and let’s me know when pockets have opened up too much and time for the recycle bin…

 

[ebb]

The pockets got too big because the strength on the case was insufficient to withstand the pressure the loaded ammo produced. The case expanded in the chamber and its diameter got bigger, many say that a measurement of the extractor groove diameter of a case will be larger than a case of the same batch that is unfired. While the ball bearing trick may displace enough metal to make it seem as if the pocket is fixed it will only "fix" the very end of the case and not the whole pocket. In my mind you are not even pushing in the right direction. The sizing needs to be radially and reduce the diameter of the whole base. Ive tried the Bobby Bart tool, don't waste your money. I wanted to reduce pocket holes to fix my sorry Remington Ultra Mag cases, but to do it there needs to be a two pieced mold made to wrap around the base and they need to be squeezed with a hydraulic press to return the whole base to it's original size. I have an RCBS tool that I will send you that my friends say works to fix pockets, I bought it for my Ultra Mags, but they are too big to work in the tool. I have 2 of them I think and if you want to try one let me know.