These 3 bullets seem very close in design. Does one have any advantage over the other two?
Sierra 168 tipped vs HP vs 169 HP
- Thread starter Ralph Littlefield
- Start date
I'm not 100%, but I think the difference has to do with the boat-tail design. The 169 is supposed to be more stable at longer distances in the trans-sonic stage. Some one that has shot them will surely chime in.
When you say HP do you mean the Match King? For us, the TMK (tipped) fly a little flatter, but the SMKs (open tipped match) are more accurate by a little bit.
My buddy love's BC, but I'll take accuracy over BC any day.
If I were loading for myself only, I'd stick with the SMKs all day long.
My buddy love's BC, but I'll take accuracy over BC any day.
If I were loading for myself only, I'd stick with the SMKs all day long.
Yes, I mean MatchKing.
Sierra makes two open tipped (Hollow Point) versions, #2200 is 168 grains and #2269 is 169 grains. Those are the bullets I refer to.
The 168 bullet is a great bullet. It was the main bullet for 30 cal XTC shooting. It is fine to 600 yards, but has issues at 1000. The 169 has a slightly different profile and shoots good at 1000.
Thanks for all the replies.
I am limited to 600 yds, so it seems that any of the 3 should work equally well for me.
I am limited to 600 yds, so it seems that any of the 3 should work equally well for me.
I've used all three and except for the tipped, I still use both the 168 SMK's and 169 SMK's. Because the 168 TMK is designed with a secant ogive, they're not as easy to find a seating depth that works well. Both the SMK's, with their tangent ogive, are more forgiving as the throat erodes than the TMK's. As mentioned above, the 168 perform very well out to ~600 yds and do very well at that range. The 169 SMK's are a redesign of the 168's where they are longer and with longer boat tails and the meplat has been tipped (tip is closed and made more uniform). This new design works very nice out to 1000 yds and for shorter distances and in my limited experience, I've found them to do a little better than the 168 SMK's and even better than the 175 SMK's.
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Trust me they are not an imaginary bullet. They are out there and shoot very accurately with a well developed load.
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Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
168 was designed for 300M International game with the boat tail that is not good trans sonic past 900. 168 TMK was the next iteration with the polymer tip, the 169 has a different boat tail that aids in transsonic stability.
I've shot all three.The hollow point 169's shoot as well as the original SMK,but the tighter point and better boat tail give them enough BC to stay hypersonic at 1,000 yards.The tipped version is a totally different animal.They are extremely accurate if the OAL sweet spot can be found.They act like an ELD-M.They like to be very close to the lands.
The original 168 SMK was developed In the late 1950's or early 1960's and at the time a lot of data obtained from testing in the trans sonic flow regime ( .9 to 1.2 times the speed of sound) was still being developed and long range shooting was not 1000yds. The 168SMK was designed for competition at 300 meters so transonic performance wasn't an issue. The US military found that the bullet was very accurate out to 600 yds/meters and began using it in Match ammunition. When it was pushed to longer distances the bullet began to go unstable at around 800yds. What was discovered is the steep boat-tail angle causes flow separation at the boat-tail junction and when the bullet enters the transonic zone it experiences significant yaw causing random directional changes in the bullet's flight path.
Ultimately, working with Lake City, Sierra developed what would become the 175 SMK with a shallower boat tail that would stay supersonic to 1000yds and also maintain stability through the transonic zone.
The tipped SMK as has been noted is a secant ogive bullet and with that comes a better ballistic coefficient but it also results and some inbore and aerodynamic issues that tend to decrease the inherant precision that is obtainable from the bullet. It was developed in a period where long range shooting was increasing in popularity and the demand for higher BC bullets was increasing.
If you look at the 169 SMK you will see the front end of the bullet (ogive) is much the same as the 168 but the rear at the boat-tail is very different. Sierra has also developed the ability to close the tip of the bullet which results in a more uniform bullet with less variation in BC.
Ultimately, working with Lake City, Sierra developed what would become the 175 SMK with a shallower boat tail that would stay supersonic to 1000yds and also maintain stability through the transonic zone.
The tipped SMK as has been noted is a secant ogive bullet and with that comes a better ballistic coefficient but it also results and some inbore and aerodynamic issues that tend to decrease the inherant precision that is obtainable from the bullet. It was developed in a period where long range shooting was increasing in popularity and the demand for higher BC bullets was increasing.
If you look at the 169 SMK you will see the front end of the bullet (ogive) is much the same as the 168 but the rear at the boat-tail is very different. Sierra has also developed the ability to close the tip of the bullet which results in a more uniform bullet with less variation in BC.
I think the twist rate is a factor too. I have a Rem 700 20" with, I think, the 12 twist? That sucker will fan 168s out over a 10 yard area at 1000 yards.
But my buddy has an LMT MWS gas gun that will keep them stable through transonic. That thing has an 10 or 11 twist.
Unless you're at a fairly high altitude the 168 is going transsonic at 700-800 yds out of a 20" bbl so you are doing good to find them. The twist is not the issue.
For some reason, my buddy's shorter gas gun would hit at 1k with the same bullets. My Rem 700 sprayed them out pretty wide.... like I say... about a 10 yard radius around the target.
I could remember chuckling at the idea that he would even try it, but the flew well... and tracked.
It's possible that the twist might help in a borderline situation. It would be interesting to compare velocities between the to guns.
I'd should load up some 168s and try 1000 yards again. It's been 4 or 5 years. We've gone 175gr across the board, but I still have a handful of 168s.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
My 308 would not shoot the TMK's worth a damn; never did get them to group. The non-tipped 168's and 169's were largely interchangeable. Not a big deal, as I rarely shoot that barrel anymore. I wasn't shooting long range, though.
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