Shoulder bump question

[Milo 2.0]

Think about it. Did you really move the shoulder. I would be more inclined to say a new shoulder was formed. If the shoulder was moved, what replaced it and where did it come from? I'm starting to understand fguffey. Should I seek help?

Yes

 

[Milo 2.0]

Think about it. Did you really move the shoulder. I would be more inclined to say a new shoulder was formed. If the shoulder was moved, what replaced it and where did it come from? I'm starting to understand fguffey. Should I seek help?

I shouldn't, Donovan's pic misleading, he manipulated the shoulder for a better term, he erased the original, and made a new one, otherwise the brass could've blown apart if the just shoulder went forward. We as reloaders use the term "blow the shoulder forward". It's a term, accepted by 99.9999999% of handloaders. The term, "bump the shoulder" is just another term accepted by 99.9999999999999% of reloaders, I have no idea if the area around the shoulder takes the .002" contraction, or if it's absorbed in 90% of the length of the case body. The fact is, who gives a shit. The brass now chambers.

 

[Bart B.]

What happened to this 308 Win case shoulder (right case in picture) when it was fired in a 30-06 chamber?

 

[dkhunt14]

I shouldn't, Donovan's pic misleading, he manipulated the shoulder for a better term, he erased the original, and made a new one, otherwise the brass could've blown apart if the just shoulder went forward. We as reloaders use the term "blow the shoulder forward". It's a term, accepted by 99.9999999% of handloaders. The term, "bump the shoulder" is just another term accepted by 99.9999999999999% of reloaders, I have no idea if the area around the shoulder takes the .002" contraction, or if it's absorbed in 90% of the length of the case body. The fact is, who gives a shit. The brass now chambers.

I believe your numbers are wrong. There is only one reloader in the whole country who can't. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Think about it. Did you really move the shoulder. I would be more inclined to say a new shoulder was formed. If the shoulder was moved, what replaced it and where did it come from? I'm starting to understand fguffey. Should I seek help?

When bumping the shoulder, you are pushing it back, which usually causes brass to flow. If you understand him, you better seek help. Matt

 

[tmwinds]

. The fact is, who gives a shit. The brass now chambers.

Finally, a post I understand and agree with.

 

[dmoran]

I shouldn't, Donovan's pic misleading...

What's misleading?
- The shoulder moved in location (by .100").
- The shoulder moved in angle (from 30 to 40).
- Most all the original shoulder metal moved out of the shoulder.
- Neck metal moved into a shoulder.
- Shoulder metal moved to the body.
So what didn't move?

All the same could be said if the shoulder location was only bumped 0.0001", just not in as grand of scale.

Hope your not getting swept up in all "the goofy stuff" !.!.!
Donovan

 

[Richard Coody]

What's misleading?
- The shoulder moved in location (by .100").
- The shoulder moved in angle (from 30 to 40).
- Most all the original shoulder metal moved out of the shoulder.
- Neck metal moved into a shoulder.
- Shoulder metal moved to the body.
So what didn't move?

All the same could be said if the shoulder location was only moved 0.0001", just not in as grand of scale.

Hope your not getting swept up in all "the goofy stuff" !.!.!
Donovan

now this is correct. same thing happens on a much smaller scale with a 1 to 2 thousands "bump"

this is just a question of semantics. we all know what "bump" means. goofy just wants to argue the point.

 

[fguffey]

What happened to this 308 Win case shoulder (right case in picture) when it was fired in a 30-06 chamber?

One more time: The shoulder did not move, the shoulder became part of the case body and the neck almost disappeared or became part of the shoulder . I know: I am wasting my time because you are the one that claims the firing pin drives the case forward with the bullet and powder to the shoulder of the chamber. And I say over and over and over if the case shoulder of the case is driven forward the length of the neck would not change.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

And then it has to be understood the 308 W case body/shoulder juncture is larger than the 30/06 case body at the same distance from the case head; meaning the case body/juncture is sized down .014" when chambered and when chambered in a Garand the bolt closes with enough force to size the case body.

What does all of that mean? It means the 308W case when chambered in a 30/06 the case head spaces on the case body/shoulder juncture.

F. Guffey

 

[dellet]

This thread reminds me of a math teacher I had, who took great delight in writing equations on the board for students.
Six minus three, 6
Six subtract three, 6-3

words lives matter

 

[Milo 2.0]

Hope your not getting swept up in all "the goofy stuff" !.!.!
Donovan

Oh God No, you just took the time to type it all in, and feel free to shoot me if the question arises again.

 

[JFrank]

And then it has to be understood the 308 W case body/shoulder juncture is larger than the 30/06 case body at the same distance from the case head; meaning the case body/juncture is sized down .014" when chambered and when chambered in a Garand the bolt closes with enough force to size the case body.

What does all of that mean? It means the 308W case when chambered in a 30/06 the case head spaces on the case body/shoulder juncture.

F. Guffey

Say what???

 

[fguffey]

Say what???

For years a member of many forums posted pictures of a 308W case chambered in a 30/06 chamber. He claimed the 308W was a short 30/06. I was the only one to disagree with him.

And then: Before that many owners of 308 W NATO 7.62 rifles decided they would upgrade the 308 W to 30/06. I said "You should not do that!", I explained the 30/06 reamer will not clean up the chamber of the 308W. The reamer will not clean up the case body/shoulder juncture of the 308W chamber. When finished cases fired in the new creation had a ring around the case left there by the case body/shoulder juncture of the 308W chamber. And then there were those that choose to go from 7MM57 to 280 Remington, most of those chambers came out with two different neck diameters. And there was an 8MM chamber, I told them to measure before and again after, they took their new creations to the range and ejected cases with tow different neck diameters.

F. Guffey

 

[JFrank]

For years a member of many forums posted pictures of a 308W case chambered in a 30/06 chamber. He claimed the 308W was a short 30/06. I was the only one to disagree with him.

And then: Before that many owners of 308 W NATO 7.62 rifles decided they would upgrade the 308 W to 30/06. I said "You should not do that!", I explained the 30/06 reamer will not clean up the chamber of the 308W. The reamer will not clean up the case body/shoulder juncture of the 308W chamber. When finished cases fired in the new creation had a ring around the case left there by the case body/shoulder juncture of the 308W chamber. And then there were those that choose to go from 7MM57 to 280 Remington, most of those chambers came out with two different neck diameters. And there was an 8MM chamber, I told them to measure before and again after, they took their new creations to the range and ejected cases with tow different neck diameters.

F. Guffey

Thank you Sir that was well thought out and written.