Should I reload this? Another bulged case.

[XCCat]

Hey guys!

This is my first post on this forum. So many questions have already been asked and answered here, but I could really use your collective experience and knowledge on my specific problem.

So, long story short: I am brand new to reloading. I have recently bought all the basic equipment to get started (I think) and in my excitement over all these new tools I have started to measure and weigh everything in my shooting cabinet. I am the proud owner of a Bergara B-14 HMR chambered in 6.5 Creeedmoor and I was a bit surprised when none of the brass from that rifle (once fired) would fit in my "Go - No Go" Ammo checker from Lyman.

Looking closer, I noticed a circumferential bulge on the body of the case near the head. This rifle has only ever fired factory ammunition and interestingly, the bulge is at a very slightly different height depending on the brand of the brass.

I believe you will be able to see what I'm trying to explain on these photos.

The 4 cases on the left are from Hornady ammunition, the ones to the right from Nosler.



On this one at the left and right are still Hornady and Nosler. Put side by side you can see that there is a line slightly higher on the Hornady compared to the Nosler, and it also shows the bulge where the two cases touch.



This shows how a non fired round fits nicely in the Lyman ammo checker while the fire formed brass is too big. According to Lyman, the ammo checker is manufactured to the minimum SAAMI specs of a 6.5CM chamber.





When I compare the measurements I took from a fired case to the SAAMI specs they are over sized for the maximum cartridge size but they are still smaller than the maximum chamber specs. In my research I have found photos of very similar cartridges but most people seemed to attribute the deformity to the reloading process. Something like "this line is where your full length resizing die ends". The thing is: these cases have never been in a press since they were bought.

(So much for the short story)
Finally, this is what I would like to know:
About my rifle: Do you think my rifle's chamber is out of spec? If so, should I expect this to affect my accuracy potential a lot?
About my brass: Can I safely reload this? Is it going to work harden this spot faster? Weaken it? Should I just neck size and leave the case head alone?

I'm bummed. I really like that gun and it is the main reason I wanted to start hand loading.
Your input is much appreciated. I have so much to learn.

Thanks a bunch!

XCCat

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Gun maker's start with a big reamer and resharpen it probably several times before discarding when it gets too small. Your chamber was cut with a new/ big reamer. What i do is neck sizing with Wilson hand die's and after two or three firing's i then use a (body) die just to bump the shoulder back so there is no resistance when closing the bolt. This will allow you to not over- work your brass. But you should stick to one brass only. Mixing brass bad ! The bulge location is just showing the difference between the brass manufacturers dimensions internally. Forget the shell checker altogether.

 

[sawcarver]

It looks pretty normal. Shouldnt effect anything. Full length size it and it should fit into the chamber checker. Always full length size.

Once you feel a little more comfortable reloading then start reading about bumping the shoulders when you full length size.

 

[Ggmac]

I'm a little more concerned with the appearance of the shoulder being " off"
On the cartridge on the left
You cases aren't going to last long , be careful , wear safety glasses .

 

[powderbrake]

The ammo checker is for checking new or SIZED ( reloaded ) brass.

It is NOT for checking fired brass.

 

[XCCat]

Gun maker's start with a big reamer and resharpen it probably several times before discarding when it gets too small. Your chamber was cut with a new/ big reamer. What i do is neck sizing with Wilson hand die's and after two or three firing's i then use a (body) die just to bump the shoulder back so there is no resistance when closing the bolt. This will allow you to not over- work your brass. But you should stick to one brass only. Mixing brass bad ! The bulge location is just showing the difference between the brass manufacturers dimensions internally. Forget the shell checker altogether.

That makes a lot of sense, I think I'll go with something like that. I have multiple sorts of brass from when I first bought the rifle. I wanted to see what factory ammo would behave the best in my barrel. I have since stuck with the Hornady brass so I'll put the other ones aside. Thanks a lot for your help.


Sawcarver, I'll have to read more about full length vs neck sizing. You are not the first person that tells me to full length size only.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Fired brass expands to match the chamber it was fired in. It is not uncommon that such fired brass will not re-chamber easily until it has been re-sized. This is normal. It certainly should not fit into a case gauge designed as a "GO" gauge for unfired/re-sized brass. If you intend to use that brass for reloading purposes, only bump the shoulders by about .001" to .002" from their fired dimension when you re-size it and regularly inspect the region of the case with the "bump" for cracks or other abnormalities and you should be fine.

 

[RegionRat]

Same advice as above, try a normal sizing process to see if they respond to your case gage after sizing, but...

Carefully come up on the process of establishing how much you size down that brass by using three things.

One is your rifle chamber, do the cases allow the bolt to close without trouble?

Two... Use measurement tools, take readings on the new unfired samples as well as fired samples and proceed with a plan, i.e., will you go all the way back to SAAMI or will you size just enough to bump the shoulder back for reliability? This process will usually address that diameter and also have an effect on trim length, so study those dimensions along the way.

Three is how soon does that case drop into the gage if ever. Some instances like yours are going to size the body and cure the case gage issue, some will not. If your fired cases don't cause issues with item one, then you will probably learn to live without using the case gage and rely on your measurement tools. Many times the normal sizing process with cure all of this.

Don't give up the ship. Most decent quality rifles have QC that should prevent issues, but with all things made by humans we sometimes encounter escapes. If your rifle is a good shooter with factory ammo, there is no reason to panic at this point. Your reloads will likely give even better performance once you gain experience.

There is a process used to evaluate a chamber cut. A casting is made of the chamber and used to determine if it is "bad". I don't think you are there yet. Size up a few with careful measurements and see what comes.

Good Luck.

 

[Bill K]

FL size your fired cases, with the shoulder just touching, with no set back, this should size the case to your chamber. See then how they fit and reload a couple of each and fire them and see if that does not solve the issues you believe are occurring and they work just fine in your chamber.

 

[Uncle Ed]

If you look at the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing they both have plus and minus tolerances. The 6.5 Creedmore case can vary .008 in diameter and the chamber can vary .002 in diameter.

The base diameter manufacturing tolerance of your 6.5 Creedmore case is .4703 to .4623 or vary .008 in diameter.

And the chamber diameter can vary from .4714 to .4694

So with a case at minimum diameter and a chamber at maximum diameter you have .010 difference.

Bottom line, what you see on your cases is normal due to the plus and minus tolerances of the case and chamber. And all you are seeing is how far the case expanded to contact the chamber walls. And how far above the extractor groove you see this expansion varies with case thickness and hardness.

Below both of these .303 British cases were fired in the same rifle chamber. The Prvi Parizan case on the left is larger in diameter and thicker in the base than the HXP case on the right. And you can see how far the HXP case expanded to contact the chamber walls because of its smaller diameter.

 

[HTSmith]

Sawcarver, I'll have to read more about full length vs neck sizing. You are not the first person that tells me to full length size only.

Neck sizing only is really out of style these days, but I've done it with success with a "fat" chambered rifle (like it appears yours may have). A Lee collet die is the ticket. The first check is to make sure your fired brass will chamber in your rifle. If it is already a snug fit, you'll have no choice but to full length resize. As pointed out already, only turn the sizing die down as far as required to let the bolt close easily. My "fat" chambered rifle turned out to be the most accurate hunting rifle I've ever owned, but brass never held up very long.

If you do choose to neck size only, a good practice is to chamber every loaded round (with the firing pin assembly removed) in advance for ammo to be used for hunting or a match.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Sawcarver, I'll have to read more about full length vs neck sizing. You are not the first person that tells me to full length size only.

Click on the image below to enlarge, Kevin Thomas worked in the Sierra ballistic test lab before joining Team Lapua USA.

 

[bozo699]

XCCAT,
Welcome to the forum and to the wonderful world of reloading and pulling your hair out!
Always full length resize and bump the shoulder with a full length die otherwise your case will stretch while resizing and it may not chamber in your rifle.neck sizing is mostly old school sr br practices and definitely not what you want in a repeating rifle. Good luck and look forward to hearing more from ya
Wayne

 

[Gappmast]

You may have a chamber that was cut with a reamer on the high side of spec or you may have a chamber that was cut oversize in the rear. The only way to know if your chamber is in SAAMI specs is a chamber cast.

 

[Dub]

Just be sure to full length re size as others have suggested. you can then re check in your case gauge and you will see what is happening. it is all good, and enjoy what you are getting into

 

[XCCat]

You guys are awesome.

Uncle Ed, what you explains makes a lot of sense. I'm the visual type and those last photos and diagram make me feel better about this brass.

Thanks for the clarifications on N/S vs F/L sizing. Everyone here seems to agree that N/S is mostly old school and that full length is at least as good or better for brass life and shooting accuracy. Kevin Thomas is putting the last nail in this coffin. I'm glad I can just stick with the dies I have for now (Hornady Match), I do not have a neck sizing die.

I will still keep a eye on the measurements of the resized cartridges, the condition of the brass at the bulging site between each reloads and especially how the cartridges fits in my rifle.

The new factory ammos were shooting pretty well in the Bergara. Approximately 0.75 MOA and I am probably still the weakest part of system. I'm looking forward to see how reloading is going to affect this.

This is a great community, thanks again.