short range f-class? and prone?

[kzin]

I was reading the other thread and thinking of how little f-class there is in my area relative to the number of ranges and gun clubs. Then it hit me that the main reason may be that there are very few over 200yd ranges! The one place in reasonable distance where I can shoot f-class equipment in competition is unsanctioned at 200 yards.

Is it time for registered 100 and 200 yard f-class to grow the sport?

Would it even work?

Rimfire at those distances might make more sense but small-bore f-class seems to be almost impossible to find even relative to hp f-class.

Are there sling shooters who would like to shoot all prone at reduced targets rather than xtc?

 

[ShootDots]

When I lived in Texas, there was a range called PSC. They had a "fun shoot" for F-Class at 200 yards. They used a "modified 300 yard" target. Scores were almost always "off the scale". BUT it was a GREAT shoot to learn and perfect your technique(s). It was a lot of fun and I enjoyed it immensely. The only difficulty was, was there were no target pullers. You sighted in for 15 mins and then changed targets. From there on out it was ONLY shooting for score. NO SIGHTERS>>>PERIOD! Unless you were putting the shots in the same hole where it eventually enlarged itself to the point where you could see the bigger hole, you really had no idea EXACTLY where your bullets were landing. If the wind was up or switching, it could get a bit difficult>>>You did not know where you were hitting. GREAT FUN indeed!

 

[Medic505]

to the point where you could see the bigger hole

DANG, are YOU using IRON sights?

 

[ShootDots]

DANG, are YOU using IRON sights?

Believe it or not, I used to use a .308 and a .223. Both had Sightron 8-32x scopes with LRTD (1/8th Dot).. The black paper against the impact berm, where they were shielded from the sun, became just a black piece of paper with razor thin rings.. Add heat waves and unless that .308 had 5-6 bullets in the hole, you could not see where you were hitting. AND I used to use a Nikon 20-60X Spotting scope, which only helped if I hit one of those lines.

 

[DirtySteve]

There are some places shoot 22 RF at 50 and 100 yards simulating F-class. One of the guys I shoot with does this and he says the wind calls are about the same a F-class.

 

[ShootDots]

There are some places shoot 22 RF at 50 and 100 yards simulating F-class. One of the guys I shoot with does this and he says the wind calls are about the same a F-class.

At the fun shoot we had at PSC, there were 2 shooters who, from time to time, would shoot .22Rimfires at the match. But even when the wind was fairly mild (2-4m.p.h.) their scores suffered greatly. I thought 200 yards for a .22RF was a stretch.. Now had they shot .22 Magnums, that might have been a bit more realistic, better mimicking F-Open..

 

[Berger.Fan222]

200 yard rimfire F-Class is a hoot.

The NRA seems to be in the process of making rimfire F-Class official, but ranges and target faces are less clear. I hope there is a 200 yard version in the mix, but 50 and 100 yards are more likely so it can be shot alongside of existing disciplines.

I'd like to see 200 yard centerfire F-Class, but that is much less likely to get any official sanction, at least in the next few years. Yes, it is much less interesting. But lots of folks would accept shorter range competition when the alternative is long drives.

 

[lawrence97]

200 yard rimfire F-Class is a hoot.

The NRA seems to be in the process of making rimfire F-Class official, but ranges and target faces are less clear. I hope there is a 200 yard version in the mix, but 50 and 100 yards are more likely so it can be shot alongside of existing disciplines.

I'd like to see 200 yard centerfire F-Class, but that is much less likely to get any official sanction, at least in the next few years. Yes, it is much less interesting. But lots of folks would accept shorter range competition when the alternative is long drives.

200 yards seems too close! That’s short range br territory and you might as well just shoot a ppc or br at that distance. At that distance I see a lot of target centers being punched out! It’s already happening at 600 yard fclass matches and has become a battle for high X count.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

200 yards seems too close! That’s short range br territory and you might as well just shoot a ppc or br at that distance. At that distance I see a lot of target centers being punched out! It’s already happening at 600 yard fclass matches and has become a battle for high X count.

I see what you are saying, but I see newbies rather than experienced hands attending 200 yard events. It'll take most newbies a while to come up to speed with precision prone shooting, even at 200 yards. When they top out their skills there, then they may be willing to drive to 600 yard matches a few times a year. I don't think you'll see many custom guns built in wildcat cartridges just to rule the roost at local (possibly even unsanctioned) 200 yard F-Class events. Alternatively, when a shooter maxes out the potential of their centerfire rifles at 200 yards, they could switch to rimfire (a much bigger challenge). 200 yard F-Class could have rimfire and centerfire divisions shooting alongside each other.

And F-TR will still be limited to .223 and .308.

I track a number of 300 yard F-Class matches, and yes, there are a few cleans, especially on still days. But tracking the trends after a new match becomes available at a club, there were not many cleans in the first year of competition, AND even after several years, only 5-10% of the shooters are shooting 600s with more than half the shooters under 590. Scores are even lower at the unsanctioned 40 shot 300 yard F-Class match in central Alabama: no cleans (400) in the five available score reports, and more than half the shooters below 370.

I think 200 yard matches would follow a similar pattern - a few local shooters will figure it out quickly shoot lots of cleans, but the venue will remain a training ground for the other 90% of shooters who have room to improve on their fundamentals and reloading techniques.

Folks may not realize that the NRA Marksmanship Qualification program specifies 100 and 200 yard courses of fire for the F-Class Rifle Course. The NRA views work at 100 and 200 yards as legitimate training in the F-Class discipline. They specify the MR-31 target for 100 yard F-Class and the MR-52 target for 200 yard F-Class. Match directors probably want smaller scoring rings for competition. I think the A23/5 is about right for 100 yard centerfire, and the MR-31 is about right for 200 yard centerfire. (And I agree with the smallbore targets already in use for rimfire F-Class at 50, 100, and 200 yards.)

 

[dcali]

200 is too close for Open guns, and probably for TR as well. On a calm day, if you don't shoot a 600 at 600 in Open, you're probably not going to win. At 200, you might as well quit if you drop a point. I bet you'd see a large percentage of competitors cleaning the target (and obliterating the x ring beyond the ability to score). If all I had was a 200 yard range, I'd be thinking about shooting rimfire to keep it sporting.

 

[kzin]

200 is too close for Open guns, and probably for TR as well. On a calm day, if you don't shoot a 600 at 600 in Open, you're probably not going to win. At 200, you might as well quit if you drop a point. I bet you'd see a large percentage of competitors cleaning the target (and obliterating the x ring beyond the ability to score). If all I had was a 200 yard range, I'd be thinking about shooting rimfire to keep it sporting.

Is this really a limit or just a requirement for smaller targets?

Put up multiple very small bulls with few shots at each like 50 foot smallbore?

 

[dcali]

Is this really a limit or just a requirement for smaller targets?

Put up multiple very small bulls with few shots at each like 50 foot smallbore?

You could, but you're basically shooting benchrest for score at that point (no target pulling). Maybe some guys would enjoy it. I might try it just to dust off my old .30BR, but in general it wouldn't be my first choice to shoot. It might be good way to bridge the two disciplines and get a little cross-over. BR guys could shoot what they already have and be competitive.

 

[dolek]

Great idea,better than nothing . Great training aid and confidence builder .I see the word WIN mentioned in these threads all the time...why is that ? I rather see words like ,improved,had fun,new friends, etc . When a new shooter starts researching and reads all that win-win crap instead of someone passing along knowledge and support they start to wonder if everyone is going to be a real dick when they show up at the range...so some just stay home.

 

[XTR]

200 is too close for Open guns, and probably for TR as well. On a calm day, if you don't shoot a 600 at 600 in Open, you're probably not going to win. At 200, you might as well quit if you drop an X. I bet you'd see a large percentage of competitors cleaning the target (and obliterating the x ring beyond the ability to score).

Fixt it for you.

The X ring gets obliterated at 300 in F class. It is the only place that I really see E targets as an improvement over what we do today.

I built an F-TR rimfire rifle a few yrs ago. I picked up a barreled 40x action that had been a BR shooters backup. It makes ragged little holes at 50 yards with Eley stuff, but I never found a use for it.

I'd think that at those ranges rimfire would be the way to go, just be prepared for people (like me) who show up with a rimfire BR setup Not everyone will be shooting a 10-22 or a sporter. It's still competition.

 

[USMCDOC]

Not everyone will be shooting a 10-22 or a sporter. It's still competition.

Some of those 10/22's when set up right.. shoots dots!

 

[memilanuk]

You'd have to use something like an Hunter Benchrest or Varmint-For-Score target - one shot per bullseye. Throw out some of the 'extra' scoring rings that we don't need, scrunch the targets closer together. Then go to 'worst edge' scoring to get rid of the 'if it touches the line it counts' gaming with things like the .30 BR.

 

[DE-F-Open]

200 yard rimfire F-Class is a hoot.

The NRA seems to be in the process of making rimfire F-Class official, but ranges and target faces are less clear. I hope there is a 200 yard version in the mix, but 50 and 100 yards are more likely so it can be shot alongside of existing disciplines.

I'd like to see 200 yard centerfire F-Class, but that is much less likely to get any official sanction, at least in the next few years. Yes, it is much less interesting. But lots of folks would accept shorter range competition when the alternative is long drives.

Dear Berger.Fan222,

The NRA Rules for Smallbore F-Class may be found at Chapter 23, beginning on page 64 of NRA's Smallbore Rifle Rule Book - available on line. You are correct, these Rules are "provisional" so as to allow for the "bugs" to be worked out before becoming permanent.

You may also be interested to learn that NRA Smallbore Committee was discussing the addition of Smallbore F-Class to the program for the NRA Smallbore Nationals - I don't know what they decided.

Hope this helps,

John

 

[DE-F-Open]

Dear Berger.Fan222,

The NRA Rules for Smallbore F-Class may be found at Chapter 23, beginning on page 64 of NRA's Smallbore Rifle Rule Book - available on line. You are correct, these Rules are "provisional" so as to allow for the "bugs" to be worked out before becoming permanent.

You may also be interested to learn that NRA Smallbore Committee was discussing the addition of Smallbore F-Class to the program for the NRA Smallbore Nationals - I don't know what they decided.

Hope this helps,

John

------------------------------
quick FOLLOW-UP:

I just heard from a member of the Smallbore Committee who informs me that Smallbore F-Class will be a part of the Smallbore Nationals program at Bristol in 2018.

John

 

[kzin]

------------------------------
quick FOLLOW-UP:

I just heard from a member of the Smallbore Committee who informs me that Smallbore F-Class will be a part of the Smallbore Nationals program at Bristol in 2018.

John

F was on the program at the Metric Prone Nationals this year.
Is this a step up from that?

 

[asyoung]

You could, but you're basically shooting benchrest for score at that point (no target pulling). Maybe some guys would enjoy it. I might try it just to dust off my old .30BR, but in general it wouldn't be my first choice to shoot. It might be good way to bridge the two disciplines and get a little cross-over. BR guys could shoot what they already have and be competitive.

What is the difference between f-class and benchrest for score? (Aside from the obvious ground/bench deal)