Shooting through a pipe !*#$@!!!
- Thread starter gunnyart
- Start date
I suspect the pipes are there to prevent muzzles from being elevated to unsafe angles. More than a few ranges I've heard about have them.
About the only ways I can see these pipes affecting accuracy are:
1. Pipe diameter is so narrow,read: 1 digit in inches in diameter) that muzzle blast deflects off the pipe surface, resulting in bullet deflection. IMO, such a setup would be borderline unsafe, unless the muzzle was inserted inside the pipe.
2. Muzzle blast causes the shooter to flinch. One fix is to line such pipes with fiberglass batting to absorb some of the blast.
If the pipes were installed to prevent stray rounds from leaving the range, I'd say the odds are not good that you will succeed in having them removed.
About the only ways I can see these pipes affecting accuracy are:
1. Pipe diameter is so narrow,read: 1 digit in inches in diameter) that muzzle blast deflects off the pipe surface, resulting in bullet deflection. IMO, such a setup would be borderline unsafe, unless the muzzle was inserted inside the pipe.
2. Muzzle blast causes the shooter to flinch. One fix is to line such pipes with fiberglass batting to absorb some of the blast.
If the pipes were installed to prevent stray rounds from leaving the range, I'd say the odds are not good that you will succeed in having them removed.
My winter range is under ground and thru a 6 foot culvert pipe. Aside from the lighting being poor, I really like it. I'm in Montana and it's cold here but warm under ground. It sounds like you guys are shooting thru them above ground though. I don't know, it's definately an artificial setting which may in some way hurt accuracy. I always looked at it as a wind free environment. It may be detrimental I dont have a clue.
tootalloutdoors
tootalloutdoors
Ben Lomond Gun Club, about 50 miles east of Colorado Springs, uses a similar system only instead of piping it's bales of old tires. I haven't shot there in 2 years,moved out Nov 2004) but no one really likes that range much except when it's snowing. It's only 100 yards, it's a completely enclosed shooting area opening out onto a dug out area with a cut hillside as a berm. So even with your ears on the noise level is very high, and frankly, from a safety standpoint it's bad. You can only see directly in front of your position and the berm 100 yards out. Since you can't see outside the building any other way but through the hole in the bales, someone could wander into a bad spot unseen by those inside. If no one is shooting, someone outside could believe that it's safe to go down range, or worse, some 3 year old could slip away.,I've never seen a child there, but still...) All in all I think it's a bad thing, especially when all the other ranges, 100, 200, out to 600+, silhouette, trap, black powder and a dozen pistol ranges are all open sky ranges. The closest dwelling is over a mile away and the range with the tires is pointing 90 degrees away from it. Only the LR range is pointing towards any building that I know of. I'd rather shoot where I can see everything. -Rod-
Rod,USAPatriot said:
1 Mile downrange isn't far enough to prevent stray rounds from striking. A .22 LR fired at an elevation angle of around 25 degrees will travel up to 1-1/2 miles. Fired at the same angle, a 175+ grain match bullet from a 30-06 @ 2700-2800 FPS will travel over 5700 yards,3.25 miles).
Most rifle ranges in the US don't own the 4 miles behind the backstop. Thus, the only means to ensure bullets stay on the property is installing baffles or other physical deterrents,i.e., pipes and tires) to limit how far shooters can elevate the muzzles.
The loss of accuracy from firing through a 2-3 foot diameter pipe will not result in rounds leaving the property.
Forum Boss
Administrator
In some places in Europe, they use hanging overhead curtains of heavy material to stop stray elevated shots. This was illustrated in our first-ever Gun of the Week, in this photo by Jim DeKort:
Looks weird, but I'd rather have the "drapes" than have to shoot through a tunnel.
Looks weird, but I'd rather have the "drapes" than have to shoot through a tunnel.
Asa_Yam said:
I wasn't saying a slug wouldn't travel a mile. It'll go much further. I was pointing out that there's nothing downrange of the covered range. The LR range is the one with a building a mile away, though judging from the angle your have to shoot to get over the hill, you'd likely go past the building and into farmland. I don't even know that the place is inhabited. I've only been down that section of road twice and I'd feel sorry for anyone that had to live in it. It's pretty torn up. -Rod-
Moderator said:In some places in Europe, they use hanging overhead curtains of heavy material to stop stray elevated shots. This was illustrated in our first-ever Gun of the Week, in this photo by Jim DeKort:
Looks weird, but I'd rather have the "drapes" than have to shoot through a tunnel.
That's just another style of baffles.
I've shot smallbore at Fall Creek Valley in Indiana and their multipurpose,100 yard benchrest/smallbore/highpower) rifle range looks just like that one. The baffles are wooden boxes filled with sand instead of heavy curtains, but the princple is the same. They are high enough that you can shoot standing, but not much more.
Shooting through a tube would leave me "skittish" at best, since one of my friends, who worked for one of the largest handgun manufacturers in the world, was killed in a freak accident that occured when he was doing some of the test firing through a tube they used in the plant. It was determined that there had been a build up of unburned powder in this tube over a period of several years. On the day the accident occured, he fired the gun in the tube and the flash at the muzzle ignited all of this unburned powder. The resulting ignition was so bright that some of the other folks said it was as bright as the sun! My friend had third degree burns over 70% of his body, and thankfully, he never came to for the several days that he was in the burn unit. Needles to say, if you use a tube, it is HIGHLY SUGGESTED that a REGULAR cleaning of the inside of the tube be done so that no more accidents like this will ever happen again! I can only imagine what OSHA had to say, let alone the legal ramifications!
One of the ranges that I shoot at is a brand new one that the State of Indiana has built in Huntington, IN. It has the angled baffles that are made of concrete, similar to the pictures that our moderator has provided. It is over all of the firing points from 25 yards to 100 yards and I like the safety that they offer. I have been told that not a single round has made it out of the range area since they have gone to it.
Cordially,
Bob Blaine
One of the ranges that I shoot at is a brand new one that the State of Indiana has built in Huntington, IN. It has the angled baffles that are made of concrete, similar to the pictures that our moderator has provided. It is over all of the firing points from 25 yards to 100 yards and I like the safety that they offer. I have been told that not a single round has made it out of the range area since they have gone to it.
Cordially,
Bob Blaine
The pipe in question is about 10" in diameter. I've experimented by carefully centering the rife up in the tube and it shot nearly 1/4 MOA then I offset it by only about 2" and my group opened up to 2 MOA. I'll be the first to admit that at my skill level this is only anecdotal evidence and too many variables are possible.
Jason,jb1000br said:
Better safe than sorry.
Other tests say .8 to .89 miles. .22LR packaging usually says 1 mile.A chart with max ranges can be seen at http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/May01.htm
BOTTOM LINE: Bullets will fly a LOT farther than people think. 1 Mile clearance often isn't enough. Unfortunately, many ranges these days may not even have 500 yards from the impact berm to a neighboring building!
The shooting benches butt up to a wood slat wall with a hole cut into it. Nearly butting up to that hole is a horizontal 15 foot long section of 10 inch diameter pipe. Other than the adverse effect to accuracy, It is very difficult to center the barrel up in the pipe and still have a full field of view through the scope. As My rifles are for hunting and tactical shooting I use bi-pods rather than fully adjustable rests like you BR guys use. The short BR Harris is too tall to get the rifle lined up. Also you can forget about weapons with bottom feed magazines because their isn't anyway to position them low enough.
Sorry about the rant... Somebody please get me some ammo for our next club meeting.
Sorry about the rant... Somebody please get me some ammo for our next club meeting.
I don't know - think Bob Haihn,sp) or someone else from the club said they'd just completed construction.lynn said:
Yes, the intent is to limit the escape angle for the bullets. Other alternatives include simple wood baffles which prevent elevating the muzzle when in position, or downrange baffles,as seen in previous photos). All such systems have drawbacks.
No, my first name is Asa.,Go figure?) I'm more reputable,marginally) than that Tierney fellow.
gunnyart
Are you by chance shooting at the Arlington Sportsman Club ? We have exactly the setup that you describe. I think it was done that way years ago as a cheap way to have a couple of benches setup for 200 yard shooting without the expense of baffles like the 100 yard range has. I agree its almost impossible to use with alot of rifles. I dont think theres any bullet upset due to the pipes but it causes a ton of mirage problems and you have to wait till the smoke clears between shots.
Its kind of a catch 22. Nobody uses it because it sucks but the club wont spend the money to upgrade because nobody uses it.
Jeff
Are you by chance shooting at the Arlington Sportsman Club ? We have exactly the setup that you describe. I think it was done that way years ago as a cheap way to have a couple of benches setup for 200 yard shooting without the expense of baffles like the 100 yard range has. I agree its almost impossible to use with alot of rifles. I dont think theres any bullet upset due to the pipes but it causes a ton of mirage problems and you have to wait till the smoke clears between shots.
Its kind of a catch 22. Nobody uses it because it sucks but the club wont spend the money to upgrade because nobody uses it.
Jeff
No matter what you do it will affect your shooting.
The overhead baffels tend to catch the wind when it is either from behind of front and direct it down so you contend with a down draft or at an angle get the air swirling.
Pipes unless they are large enough will have some effect and if you have large pipes where you have two shooters unless you wait and shoot in turn one will be shooting through disturbed air.
Here in Australia at our ranges normaly we have a hill at the back of the range but that is not enough we still have to have a lease agreement over the fallout zone 4,000 meters behind the hill the template goes on the map and doesn`t see hills.
Tho i am lead to believe it the mountain is of a certain hight they will give you a hight dispensation.
The overhead baffels tend to catch the wind when it is either from behind of front and direct it down so you contend with a down draft or at an angle get the air swirling.
Pipes unless they are large enough will have some effect and if you have large pipes where you have two shooters unless you wait and shoot in turn one will be shooting through disturbed air.
Here in Australia at our ranges normaly we have a hill at the back of the range but that is not enough we still have to have a lease agreement over the fallout zone 4,000 meters behind the hill the template goes on the map and doesn`t see hills.
Tho i am lead to believe it the mountain is of a certain hight they will give you a hight dispensation.
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