Shilen .222 chambers

[afret]

Trying to decide between the .250 and .255 necks. 1911nut on this forum has a very accurate .222 rifle using the chamber with the .250 neck and he uses neck turned Lapua brass. I think the loaded neck diameter with unturned Lapua brass is around .2495. From what I have read, other brands of brass have thinner necks and have loaded neck diameters of around .246-.247. So if I use Norma brass, I wouldn't have to turn necks. I ordered some Norma brass to double check.

Would it be better to get the chamber with the .255 neck and use unturned Lapua brass or get the .250 neck and use Norma brass? Seems like .005 neck clearance is a lot with the .255 neck. Trying to avoid neck turning if possible but will get the .250 chamber, Lapua brass, and all the neck turning gear if it will help with accuracy. Thanks!

 

[swadiver]

i would like to know about this as well.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I would determine the exact # on Lapua brass with bullet seated, and have a reamer made .002 over that. Then just be happy.

 

[1911nut]

afret, as you mentioned I got very good groups turning Lapua necks for the Shilen .250 neck.
If your Norma brass is 0.012”, the loaded necks should finish close to .248” which would work in the .250 chamber.
I love the quality of Lapua brass.
My recent Lapua 222 brass has necks 0.0133” . That gives a loaded neck ~ .250”+.

I just picked up a 1975 Remington 40XBR in 222. I loaded up 50 Barts bullets in new Lapua brass and they were hard to chamber- loaded necks were .2505”; fired necks were .250” and had no soot. No pressure signs but they shot terrible. It’s a Remington barrel not marked as a tight neck. I turned the necks to .0128” and they chamber perfect, I’ll shoot them tomorrow.

History might have the answer, there wasn’t Lapua 222 brass in 1975; Remington brass of that era was 0.010 - .011”.
The Remington barrel has a neck tighter than SAAMI, I don’t know what the standard was in 1975.

 

[1911nut]

...Trying to avoid neck turning if possible but will get the .250 chamber, Lapua brass, and all the neck turning gear if it will help with accuracy. Thanks!

Yeah, do that.
From what I’ve read and my limited experience indicates fitted necks contribute to small groups.

The Houston Warehouse is a great read about this as is Tony Boyer’s book.

 

[Tim s]

Since one of the single biggest aid to accuracy is truing up/turning necks, you might want to re think this unless you’re bulk loading.

 

[natdscott]

.250 neck in a .224 chamber is pretty small, and using minimum clearance doesn’t contribute as much to accuracy as people once thought that it did.

I’m not advocating throwing a hotdog down a hallway, but 0.001-2” annular space is not enough, in my opinion.

Then again, depending on the brass thickness, .255 in a .222 chamber might be sorta big.

How thick is Lapua .222?

The .223 brass is about 12.5 to 13.

 

[afret]

OK, thanks guys. I'm leaning toward the .250 neck. I think I'll have a choice that way to turn necks with the Lapua for max accuracy and use other thinner brass without turning necks. Is the K+M kit or 21st Century, or other the way to go?

 

[JohnHenry]

OK, thanks guys. I'm leaning toward the .250 neck. I think I'll have a choice that way to turn necks with the Lapua for max accuracy and use other thinner brass without turning necks. Is the K+M kit or 21st Century, or other the way to go?

+1 on the .250 chamber and neck turned Lapua brass. Assuming you have a ball micrometer to check neck wall thickness, check the neck wall thickness of the Norma brass at a number of points around the neck. Based on my experience with 221 Norma brass, Norma brass is very uniform and I think you may find that they vary no more than a few ten thousands of an inch around the circumference. Difference in neck wall thickness Lapua vs. Norma may not be the only consideration. I find that my 222's shoot best when you push them pretty hard. Have no experience shooting 222 Norma brass, but would not be surprised if the Lapua primer pockets remain tight longer than Norma.

PS: With a little digging, I did find a couple of boxes of Norma 222 brass in my inventory. The neck wall thickness is .0121 inches on my lot.

 

[Barossa_222]

I have seen plenty of accurate rifles using un-turned brass. I have seen a 308 shooting groups in the 2s and under with a .342 neck and winchester brass. I'm not refuting the results of turned vs un-turned, but I'd rather be shooting than neck turning brass.

 

[afret]

+1 on the .250 chamber and neck turned Lapua brass. Assuming you have a ball micrometer to check neck wall thickness, check the neck wall thickness of the Norma brass at a number of points around the neck. Based on my experience with 221 Norma brass, Norma brass is very uniform and I think you may find that they vary no more than a few ten thousands of an inch around the circumference. Difference in neck wall thickness Lapua vs. Norma may not be the only consideration. I find that my 222's shoot best when you push them pretty hard. Have no experience shooting 222 Norma brass, but would not be surprised if the Lapua primer pockets remain tight longer than Norma.

PS: With a little digging, I did find a couple of boxes of Norma 222 brass in my inventory. The neck wall thickness is .0121 inches on my lot.

Great info. Thank you very much for going though all the trouble of finding and measuring the Norma brass.

 

[RussellJ]

Trying to decide between the .250 and .255 necks. 1911nut on this forum has a very accurate .222 rifle using the chamber with the .250 neck and he uses neck turned Lapua brass. I think the loaded neck diameter with unturned Lapua brass is around .2495. From what I have read, other brands of brass have thinner necks and have loaded neck diameters of around .246-.247. So if I use Norma brass, I wouldn't have to turn necks. I ordered some Norma brass to double check.

Would it be better to get the chamber with the .255 neck and use unturned Lapua brass or get the .250 neck and use Norma brass? Seems like .005 neck clearance is a lot with the .255 neck. Trying to avoid neck turning if possible but will get the .250 chamber, Lapua brass, and all the neck turning gear if it will help with accuracy. Thanks!

Another question on the Shilen .222 chambers. How long is the throat? I have a Pac-Nor barreled Rem 700 action with a "long throat". When I seat the 50-grain Speer TNT bullet into the rifling, the bullet is only seated about an 1/8" into the neck. Overall length of the loaded cartridge is: 2.267" it shoots very well however, I wish the bullet would be seated deeper in the neck.

 

[1911nut]

Another question on the Shilen .222 chambers. How long is the throat? I have a Pac-Nor barreled Rem 700 action with a "long throat". When I seat the 50-grain Speer TNT bullet into the rifling, the bullet is only seated about an 1/8" into the neck. Overall length of the loaded cartridge is: 2.267" it shoots very well however, I wish the bullet would be seated deeper in the neck.

I got the “standard “ Shilen throat, 52g bullets are in the neck more than a caliber at jam length.
Shilen does throat to dummies at no extra cost, they throated my fast twist 22-250 for 80g VLD’s.

 

[jobhopper66]

I guess I don't see why people make such a fuss over turning necks. I really don't mind doing it and actually enjoy it. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want to do high volume prairie dog hunting with a tight neck chamber but 40 to 50 pieces of brass will certainly suffice for a rifle that never leaves the bench. For what it is worth the last 222 that Bob Green did for me has a .250 neck and I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[afret]

It just adds another step and more tools to get. It doesn't look like it's a lot of work but the neck turning tool isn't too cheap.

http://www.xxicsi.com/22-caliber.html

 

[jobhopper66]

I have turned a boat load of case necks by hand using a simple Sinclair neck turner that probably only costs $50. A shooter can greatly control the cost of neck turning. It just depends if you want to do it manually or under power. I have at least 4 Sinclair turners and most were bought used off this site for a fraction of their original selling price. Turning necks by hand isn't alot of fun but I turn until my hand cramps up and start again the following night.

 

[TAJ45]

The question of neck clearance: David Tubb has stated his chambers are in the Five thou (.005") range. Food for thought, eh?

 

[1911nut]

Chew on this....

Tomorrow I’ll be shooting a 222 that has 0.0005” clearance on both sides or 0.001” total case neck to chamber neck clearance. I’ll report back.

The gun that was mentioned in the OP’s first post has 0.002” total neck clearance, it shoots in the 1’s.

Virgil of The Houston Warehouse fame was reported to setup his cartridges this way:

“Virgil would then outside turn the necks for a total clearance of about .0007" between loaded round and chamber. Since the neck turner left cutting rings, Virgil sanded the necks shiny smooth, which typically resulted in a somewhat widened neck-to-chamber clearance of .00075". “

And this: “Virgil did not size his case necks. With about .00035" clearance on all sides between the loaded round and chamber neck, the natural spring-back of the brass, in combination with his neck preparation, correctly gripped the bullets. Some other warehouse shooters, including T.J. Jackson, followed the same practice. “

He measured clearance in TEN THOUSANDTHS ! His rifle shot in the low 0’s

 

[afret]

That's very interesting and l'm looking forward to finding out how it shoots. Your other rifle is really amazing.

 

[AlNyhus]

Respectfully, there's nothing to be gained from very small neck clearance (under .0015 total). The whole 'fitted neck' issue has been tried and abandoned by competitive BR shooters many years ago.

Opt the .255 neck, scoop up a bunch of Lapua cases and enjoy the rifle with knowing you can load any bullet you wish.

Good shootin'. -Al