This is a new caliber & platform to me. die set.. small based ?..have a 9tw 20" hbar..what bullet weight to start at...have H322, Varget, H4895 , WW748..anything else...primers..have Rem 71/2..CCI450..Fed205m...Brass..was going to buy Lake City new ...load starting point ?? Crimp ??..any help will be appreciated..Thanks
SETTING UP FOR AR .223
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bigedp51
Lake City brass is a higher quality than commercial, this is one of the changes made after 1967 to help prevent jambing.
Small base dies are not needed unless you have a small diameter chamber, and military chambers are normally larger in diameter and longer than their civilian counterparts.
WW748 and H335 meter well and will speed up your loading, both these powders under military numbers were used to load the military 5.56.
Primers, Winchester and CCI #41 with ball powder, the CCI #41 is designed for use with the AR and its floating firing pin and are thicker to prevent slam fires.
Buy your bullets in bulk and be prepared to have your AR throw perfectly good brass away and then go find it. :'(
A2 HBAR 1 in 9 twist
If your AR leaves marks on the base of the case your AR is over gassed and you will need to lower your pressure. The ammo pictured below is is M855 and loaded hotter than SAAMI specs (5,000 cup) and you can see what over gassing does to the brass.
Over gassed, the bolt is beginning to open while the case is still gripping the chamber walls and damages the base as pictured below.
http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/
Small base dies are not needed unless you have a small diameter chamber, and military chambers are normally larger in diameter and longer than their civilian counterparts.
WW748 and H335 meter well and will speed up your loading, both these powders under military numbers were used to load the military 5.56.
Primers, Winchester and CCI #41 with ball powder, the CCI #41 is designed for use with the AR and its floating firing pin and are thicker to prevent slam fires.
Buy your bullets in bulk and be prepared to have your AR throw perfectly good brass away and then go find it. :'(
A2 HBAR 1 in 9 twist
If your AR leaves marks on the base of the case your AR is over gassed and you will need to lower your pressure. The ammo pictured below is is M855 and loaded hotter than SAAMI specs (5,000 cup) and you can see what over gassing does to the brass.
Over gassed, the bolt is beginning to open while the case is still gripping the chamber walls and damages the base as pictured below.
http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/
Warning! I'm 100% ignorant on AR's.
However I will tip my hat to W-748.
I've used tons of it in the 204R.
Seen tighter groups occasionally with other powders but for overall consistency under high rates of fire W-748 always won the show.
It really does burn at a milder temp as advertised.
In my 204's I could run BM or 4895 for 10rds or so before the barrel would get quite hot.
Go past that point and coppering would start and accuracy was out the window.
748 allowed me to run 30+ rds before that type of heat was encountered and copper fouling was almost non existant.
It got to the point I would'nt clean the barrel for 500+ rds and those barrels still brought home the trophies.
Sounds like BS I know but thats my expierience after shooting out five 204 barrels.
However I will tip my hat to W-748.
I've used tons of it in the 204R.
Seen tighter groups occasionally with other powders but for overall consistency under high rates of fire W-748 always won the show.
It really does burn at a milder temp as advertised.
In my 204's I could run BM or 4895 for 10rds or so before the barrel would get quite hot.
Go past that point and coppering would start and accuracy was out the window.
748 allowed me to run 30+ rds before that type of heat was encountered and copper fouling was almost non existant.
It got to the point I would'nt clean the barrel for 500+ rds and those barrels still brought home the trophies.
Sounds like BS I know but thats my expierience after shooting out five 204 barrels.
I use Ramshot TAC in my AR's along with the Midsouth Dogtown bullets. I use Wolf 223 primers. Get better accuracy than Rem 7 1/2's.
It is my understanding that the older WW small rifle primers with the nickle plated cup are ok in an AR, but the newer brass colored ones are too soft.
41's are good also.
It is my understanding that the older WW small rifle primers with the nickle plated cup are ok in an AR, but the newer brass colored ones are too soft.
41's are good also.
bigedp51
tome said:
The AR doesn't have a spring loaded firing pin and it is free to move fore and aft. A slam fire in this case would be the cartridge firing when the bolt slams closed under force from the buffer spring. I have never had this happen and have loaded regular primers BUT for my bulk SHTF, zombie, plinking loads I use the CCI #41 primers, ball powder and crimp the bullets, and trim to 1.750.
The CCI #41 copies military primers with a thicker cup and is considered a magnum primer. For target loads I do not crimp and use CCI BR4 and non-ball powders.
WW748 was the first powder used in the M16 and at that time had a high calcium content and was a major cause of the jamming problem. The calcium level was lowered and the burn rate slightly altered on 748 and H335 was the result. NOTE, 748 is still loaded in the 7.62 and needs to be loaded a little warm to keep from burning dirty BUT the black you clean out of your barrel is a lubricant friction reducer.
nicholst55
Brass Whore
Either a heavier buffer in a carbine or a Tubbs Carrier Weight System will cause your bolt to remain locked just a tad longer, and will make the gun much easier on brass. My carbine used to sling brass 15 feet away; a Tubbs CWS makes it drop the brass in a neat pile 3-4 feet away.
FWIW, I feel that the CWS is way overpriced for what it is - a sleeve that slips into the back of the bolt carrier and a steel and carbide weight. They're right around $50 retail. A machinist friend of mine made a couple of them for me in about 20 minutes - minus the carbide weight. He didn't have any carbide stock in the correct diameter.
FWIW, I feel that the CWS is way overpriced for what it is - a sleeve that slips into the back of the bolt carrier and a steel and carbide weight. They're right around $50 retail. A machinist friend of mine made a couple of them for me in about 20 minutes - minus the carbide weight. He didn't have any carbide stock in the correct diameter.
Bradley Walker
Cut one coil off the ejector spring... Then your brass will eject about a foot into a neat pile.
It's free.
It's free.
This is a new caliber & platform to me.
-die set: WHATEVER you normally use will work fine, no special die considerations. If your AR requires a small base die.....I would consider that an inferior AR.
-small based ?: NO, only if you run into problems...shouldn't happen on any decent AR
-have a 9tw 20" hbar..what bullet weight to start at: ANYTHING up to 69 gr or so
-have H322, Varget, H4895 , WW748..anything else...: H4895 is probably perfect for anything from 55 - 75grains. I use Varget for 80 gr, but H4895 works great too.
-primers..have Rem 71/2..CCI450..Fed205m...: MAKE sure you use a hard primer. I would not use the Federal primers, but the others are ok
-Brass..was going to buy Lake City new: WHATEVER brass you want, LC is great
-load starting point ??: Check the Sierra manual, they have a specific section just for ARs. The AR gas system causes specific concerns, stick with the Sierra AR section. Generally loads will need to be at least a grain lower than bolt action max and of medium burn-speed for good gas system function.
Crimp: NOT needed, but do so if you want. Otherwise use a healthy amount of neck tension to ensure the magazine rounds do not move under recoil and during the cycling operation.
ARs are a lot of fun and very accurate: enjoy.
-die set: WHATEVER you normally use will work fine, no special die considerations. If your AR requires a small base die.....I would consider that an inferior AR.
-small based ?: NO, only if you run into problems...shouldn't happen on any decent AR
-have a 9tw 20" hbar..what bullet weight to start at: ANYTHING up to 69 gr or so
-have H322, Varget, H4895 , WW748..anything else...: H4895 is probably perfect for anything from 55 - 75grains. I use Varget for 80 gr, but H4895 works great too.
-primers..have Rem 71/2..CCI450..Fed205m...: MAKE sure you use a hard primer. I would not use the Federal primers, but the others are ok
-Brass..was going to buy Lake City new: WHATEVER brass you want, LC is great
-load starting point ??: Check the Sierra manual, they have a specific section just for ARs. The AR gas system causes specific concerns, stick with the Sierra AR section. Generally loads will need to be at least a grain lower than bolt action max and of medium burn-speed for good gas system function.
Crimp: NOT needed, but do so if you want. Otherwise use a healthy amount of neck tension to ensure the magazine rounds do not move under recoil and during the cycling operation.
ARs are a lot of fun and very accurate: enjoy.
Yeah, crimping is not needed, just control your neck tension, you will need about 3 thou for the AR.
When loading for my AR's (3 of them), I've come to prefer AA2230 for powder and Wolf/Tula .223 primers.
The Accurate powder seems to burn a lot cleaner than the others I've used, is supposedly developed for the .223 round, and for a long time was available in 8# jugs for less money than other powders.
The Wolf/Tula .223 primers give the same "slam fire" resistance as the CCI's but at a lot less cost.
I agree with those that prefer LC brass. Most of the few issues I've experienced over the years has been traced to other brass mfr's.
Just be prepared to remove military primer crimps if you acquire once fired military brass.
The Accurate powder seems to burn a lot cleaner than the others I've used, is supposedly developed for the .223 round, and for a long time was available in 8# jugs for less money than other powders.
The Wolf/Tula .223 primers give the same "slam fire" resistance as the CCI's but at a lot less cost.
I agree with those that prefer LC brass. Most of the few issues I've experienced over the years has been traced to other brass mfr's.
Just be prepared to remove military primer crimps if you acquire once fired military brass.
nicholst55
Brass Whore
Bradley Walker said:
True, as far as it goes. A heavier buffer or carrier weight will slow down bolt unlocking, and it makes the rifle a bit kinder to your brass. In my experience, this is more important with carbines and SBRs than it is with rifle-length gas systems.
If your brass is landing at 4 o'clock, then your bolt is cycling correctly
Slam fires in an AR, is caused by a high primer.
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