Setting Headspace with Rifle Brass ?

[foxguy]

I have read on here several times about setting Headspace with new brass and fired brass.
It seems to me neither would be a good idea, But, I have no experience.

So I thought I would reach out here and ask the fine experienced folks on this forum.

Thanks for your answers in advance. I have learned so much from the Accurate Shooter site and am still learning.

Thanks.

 

[std7mag]

I personally won't do that.
I always use headspace gages.

 

[DaveTooley]

If I was doing work for myself and no one else I would probably do it. I would have to deal with any problems that might arise.
But I do a lot of work for other people so that means SAAMI standards have to be met. That requires gages.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

In true Kiwi style, And for building odd wildcats, I have used a case, when gauges were not available. I found that filling the case, after careful measurement, with epoxy, to prevent crushing, worked fairly well. No replacement for doing it properly though.
Built the 30-350 and the 303 ICBM by this method. The 30-350 was done years before the WSM as a hunting rifle. Worked OK. The 303 was really good! But mainly at bending No 4 actions....

 

[Hohn]

A brass case is too variable to use as a reference item.

No, a proper gauge (of ground steel or other hard material) is required.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Out of my maybe 10/12 barrel/caliber changes on my "Savage actions", only one had a head space gauge. Everything else of with new sized or fired brass.
I got rid of the gauges in nothing flat. Way too much slop in the chambers.
Doing it for someone else? That's a different story. CYA!!
Not one of my rigs will chamber factory loaded ammo. Head space set way too tight and my brass lasts longer than most cause it doesn't have to move that much when resized.

 

[carlsbad]

When making a new rifle with the same reamer, I often want to duplicate the headspace. (not just get it inside the wide saami window). So I'll measure a piece of fired brass and compare it to my headspace gauge. If it is .002 longer(for example), then I'll either measure my new chamber with the gauge .002" clearance or I'll make a new headspace gauge that matches my desired chamber. I like my headspace gauges better anyway since I make the bases larger to they self center better.

Using the actual brass can be done but it can easily be screwed up too. I never recommend that to anyone inexperienced enough that they have to ask the question.

--Jerry

 

[Hohn]

The problem with using fired brass is that is is NOT the dimension of the chamber that fired it. It is smaller. It must be or it would not extract from that chamber, right?

 

[foxguy]

The problem with using fired brass is that is is NOT the dimension of the chamber that fired it. It is smaller. It must be or it would not extract from that chamber, right?

This is what my line of thinking was also. Slightly smaller that the chamber it came from.

 

[ckrifles]

I was told years ago by a well known gunsmith that guns didn't shoot headspace gauges. Never the less most of the guns I chamber I headspace with a gauge. However when I chamber for myself I check to see how well the gauge and my unfired brass match up.

 

[Big Mc]

I have read on here several times about setting Headspace with new brass and fired brass.
It seems to me neither would be a good idea, But, I have no experience.

So I thought I would reach out here and ask the fine experienced folks on this forum.

Thanks for your answers in advance. I have learned so much from the Accurate Shooter site and am still learning.

Thanks.

I have done it. With brass filled with JB Weld.. BUT ONLY FOR MYSELF !!!!!!!. Tommy Mc DO Not recommend it !!!!!!!

 

[Bill K]

A properly sized case can be used. But if you do have or can get a regular go/no go gauge, use it instead.

 

[carlsbad]

A properly sized case can be used. But if you do have or can get a regular go/no go gauge, use it instead.

If you use a sized case you will often be below saami, which isn't a problem if you don't shoot factory ammo.

 

[INTJ]

Though the rifles I am building are shooting well, I am new to my lathe--always will be. On a recent chamber job I had things set to just close on a go gauge, but after a competition I found I needed to tighten the barrel more. When I tightened the barrel more, the bolt would not completely close on the go gauge.

However, the bolt would still close on fire-formed brass so I did not put the barrel back in the lathe and try to deepen the chamber. I wound up tightening the headspace by about .001", and aside from having to adjust the sizer die down another .001" everything is good. It shoots the same load as well as it did before.....maybe a little better even.

Now had this been a belted magnum that may not have worked. If it's too tight on the belt I suspect it will always been too tight on the belt with a particular lot of brass.

The most likely issue with using brass as a headspace gauge is that you may get the chamber so tight it only works with one lot of brass. You also have to be very careful about feel when closing the bolt since brass will squish a little while a gauge will not. If you overcompensate for that I suppose you could wind up with too much headspace which is bad to dangerous.

Better to use a headspace gauge.....

 

[linebaugh]

I don't do work for others if I can help it, I don't buy factory ammo and most of my cases are wildcats. That said I use the case method some, actual go gauge some and hand built gauges based on my own original chambers some. There is nothing wrong with any of the methods I use for myself and don't consider one better than the next from a practical standpoint because I am hand loading to the chamber.
Were I to start doing work for others I would use go gauge or require a piece of brass sized to the desired chamber and expect the end user to hand tailor his loading to match the finished chamber.
I only own a no go gauge for belted magnums otherwise I just use a go gauge and set up for minimum to it or I use the aluminum ducting tape to the back of the case method as a no go.

 

[Richard Coody]

I use headspace gauges.

But like most things in shooting and reloading its whatever works for you.

Way I see it SAAMI only applies if you want to shoot factory store bought ammo or you are a gunsmith working for the public.

So what if there is a little wildcats in a rifle you build for.yourself.

 

[gman47564]

my first couple i used gauges on.. go and no go.... then the next 3 or 4 barrels just a go gauge.. now i set the headspace with a new case with a piece of tape cut to fit the base of the case... all savage barrels.... i remove the ejector and extractor and chamber the case then screw the barrel in till i feel it touch.. then tighten the barrel nut... new brass grows .002 to .003 on the first firing... which is about perfect for my needs...

 

[swadiver]

i just head spaced a 6BR today. i was moving the barrel i have been firing from one Savage target action to another. (don't ask). i used once fired brass (a couple of different pieces) that has been fired in this barrel, body sized like i do when loading. brass now chambers like it has been when it was fired and sized in the other action. broke out my headspace gauges, on the go gauge the bolt close feels the same, maybe just a smidge easier than with the fired, sized brass. bolt won't close at all on the no go gauge. done it this way a number of times with no issues.

 

[jepp2]

I have read on here several times about setting Headspace with new brass and fired brass.
It seems to me neither would be a good idea, But, I have no experience.

I'm not doing work for others. And I have only used it when setting the headspace on pre-fit barrels. On both instances, I wanted to set the headspace exactly the same as another rifle with a shouldered barrel. I had two pieces of brass for each, one the stripped bolt would close on with no feel, and one I could just barely feel the slight resistance of the brass closing the bolt. The case head to datum was 0.001" longer on the case I could feel the bolt close on.

Worked out perfectly on both rifles.

 

[Texas10]

I have read on here several times about setting Headspace with new brass and fired brass.
It seems to me neither would be a good idea, But, I have no experience.

So I thought I would reach out here and ask the fine experienced folks on this forum.

Thanks for your answers in advance. I have learned so much from the Accurate Shooter site and am still learning.

Thanks.

A lot of very experienced gun enthusiasts here will share how they do a particular step or job, one that works well with their particular business or hobby.
I'm going to take it upon myself to share the reasons WHY you may want to use one method over another, since you mention you have no experience with this step.

I am presuming you have barrel in hand, not installed in an action, and you have brass that is new and brass that is fired at least once in a different chamber.

You may want to beg, borrow or buy a headspace go-gage also, to use to compare to what you're going to see.

With barrel in hand, slide a new brass into the chamber and measure the head protrusion. Now do that with the fired brass. Does it slide in easily? Did it get stuck? Probably going to have to FL size it first, but you just learned something about that step when using fired brass.

Slide the go-gage into the chamber and measure the protrusion. Any different?

Now place the go-gage on the bolt and slide it in the chamber. Look at the gap between the bolt head and breech. This gap is the critical distance you are setting when you screw the barrel into the action. If you also have a no-go gage measure the head protrusion on that too, and again, look at the gap between the bolt head and breech with the no-go. Then repeat with the brass, new and used.

Setting the headspace on the short side will prevent some brands of off the shelf ammo from chambering, as well as your sizing dies may not size the shoulder enough before your shell holder bottoms out on the die. Factory and hand loads may experience higher than expected pressures because the volume of the chamber is reduced.

Setting the headspace on the long side may mean your sizing dies may not size the case head portion once you've got it set for the shoulder bump you want, and you'll have trouble chambering and extracting after a couple of cycles. Volume of the case will be increased once fireformed. Set it too long and cases may separate upon first firing. Seen that happen with a factory new 300 WM.

I hope this helps you understand the what and why of barrel installation. Good luck and don't be afraid to show off your handiwork!