Sent my Forster sizers in for Honing

[Hohn]

Plural-- FL sizers in .223 and a 6.5cm.

I settled on a bit bigger than the recommended .004 under loaded round diameter. For one, the brass I use seems not to be especially thick. I'm seeing my thinnest necks at .2475 loaded neck OD in .223 and 0.291 in 6.5mm. I do not turns necks and never will.

I ended up going .003 under on the 6.5 and 0.0025 under on the .223, giving die IDs of .2885 and .0245. I plan to switch my .223 over to Lapua or RWS brass both of which are larger neck OD than my present brass.

It turns out that the .004" under loaded OD isn't really as super-conservative as I thought, but I think there's enough room to go bigger and not loose the ability to generate sufficient neck tension.

If I come across especially thin necks that won't tension at these sizes, I'll break out the LCD for those cases.

I will say that I think the factory .240" ID on their .223 sizer is needlessly small. I can't imagine having turned brass so thin that it needs .240 to make any tension. I don't think there's any mass produced brass that needs a neck that tight. And I think it contributes to the sticking issues I've had with this die that I didn't have with my 6.5 die.

 

[bozo699]

Will be curious as to how you like them when they come back and what kind of runout you will see. Hope you post your findings
Wayne

 

[22DASHER]

Have you ever heard of or looked into FL bushing dies?

 

[bozo699]

Have you ever heard of or looked into FL bushing dies?

I have a lot of them
Wayne

 

[jepp2]

I will say that I think the factory .240" ID on their .223 sizer is needlessly small.

Agree 100%. I don't use Forster dies, so I hone my own. Case neck TIR is always less than 0.001". But I don't let the expander (when I use one) open the case neck more than 0.001".

 

[dstoenner]

Will be curious as to how you like them when they come back and what kind of runout you will see. Hope you post your findings
Wayne

With my 6br and 6x47L honed dies i see about 80% 1’s and the rest 2’s. That was a significant increase in 1’s over Whidden FL bushing dies which I didn’t think were bad. I am sold on this approach. I do turn all of my necks

david

 

[Hondo64d]

Plural-- FL sizers in .223 and a 6.5cm.

I settled on a bit bigger than the recommended .004 under loaded round diameter. For one, the brass I use seems not to be especially thick. I'm seeing my thinnest necks at .2475 loaded neck OD in .223 and 0.291 in 6.5mm. I do not turns necks and never will.

I ended up going .003 under on the 6.5 and 0.0025 under on the .223, giving die IDs of .2885 and .0245. I plan to switch my .223 over to Lapua or RWS brass both of which are larger neck OD than my present brass.

It turns out that the .004" under loaded OD isn't really as super-conservative as I thought, but I think there's enough room to go bigger and not loose the ability to generate sufficient neck tension.

If I come across especially thin necks that won't tension at these sizes, I'll break out the LCD for those cases.

I will say that I think the factory .240" ID on their .223 sizer is needlessly small. I can't imagine having turned brass so thin that it needs .240 to make any tension. I don't think there's any mass produced brass that needs a neck that tight. And I think it contributes to the sticking issues I've had with this die that I didn't have with my 6.5 die.

I went .288 on my honed Forster 6.5 Creedmoor die. Might be a little smaller than necessary but definitely works the brass much less than original dimensions and definitely produces less runout than factory dimensions. I still use the expander ball in the honed die but since the brass is being squeezed down much less, it produces almost no runout.

John

 

[22DASHER]

I have a lot of them
Wayne

Ha. Me too but I was talking to the OP

 

[Hohn]

Ha. Me too but I was talking to the OP

I’ve heard of them and did a lot of reading before deciding to go with a honed Forster instead of a more common Redding S bushing die.

I don’t like the design of common bushing dies.

I consider a floating bushing to be a design flaw. Bushings aren’t bad per se, but a proper bushing design doesn’t float. Also, a “proper” bushing design imho should have the neck and shoulder in the bushing, not just the neck, so the transition from die to bushing occurs at the shoulder/body junction.

I might pick up a Wilson FL bushing die just to play with, but my engineering mind is convinced that a neck bushing must not float relative to the case axis. Instead, a light press fit would be better. One could like engineer a way to lock down the die with the bushing centered via some clever fixture.

 

[dolek]

A lot of design flaws floating around out there. Floating is a good thing .

 

[Drop Port]

Did you just decide on a neck diameter or do load development based on interference?

 

[Preacher]

Warner Tools bushing's do not float......

 

[Ranger188]

I use a few of the Forster honed dies, and yes most are too tight directly from them.
Find the size that works for your application and then hone .002-.003 tighter, then use a mandrel
to get that perfect neck tension.

 

[Hohn]

Did you just decide on a neck diameter or do load development based on interference?

I didn’t do development.

I started with the OD of my smallest loaded rounds in the brass I use. For my .223, this is .2475”.

Then I determined from the bison Ballistics article the maximum springback with full hard .223 brass to be just a few tenths over 0.001”. Doubling this amount should produce a situation where a seated bullet takes the neck precisely to its yield point and no further.

But you want always to take the neck to yield so that tension is consistent. So you must go the next increment smaller on your neck and thus on the die. Thus a brass springback of .0012 gets doubled to .0024, rounded up to .0025, and that amount then subtracted from the smallest loaded neck OD (0.2475 in my case). Hence a honed die diameter of .245 for the .223.

The same analysis was performed on the 6.5 to arrive at 0.003 under loaded diameter, the larger value owing to the increased springback of the larger 6.5mm neck.

 

[Hohn]

Warner Tools bushing's do not float......

EXACTLY!!

 

[Hohn]

A lot of design flaws floating around out there. Floating is a good thing .

Floating is a bandaid to address insufficiently tight tolerance.

 

[BenPerfected]

Will be curious as to how you like them when they come back and what kind of runout you will see. Hope you post your findings
Wayne

Be specific on the custom die dimensions you expect from Forester. They have a new attitude....close or “shelf” is good enough....I have moved on.
Ben

 

[Drop Port]

Neck tension is just another part of load development, each rifle will tell you what it likes not some article or program. I use neck bushings to determine what it likes during load development then have custom FL made with the correct neck for my rifle. My 6br like minimal and my 47L likes a tight grip. You can't determine without testing.

 

[bozo699]

Neck tension is just another part of load development, each rifle will tell you what it likes not some article or program. I use neck bushings to determine what it likes during load development then have custom FL made with the correct neck for my rifle. My 6br like minimal and my 47L likes a tight grip. You can't determine without testing.

This has been my method as well
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Be specific on the custom die dimensions you expect from Forester. They have a new attitude....close or “shelf” is good enough....I have moved on.
Ben

I haven’t used them in several years but they use to hone mine to .0005 if I wanted it. Hope you just had a bad deal but companies do change
Wayne