SEB Neo

[M99]

Shooting F-Open, do most of you that use the SEB Neo use the counterweight? Any Pros or Cons to doing so? Just getting used to mine.

 

[Lbart]

In a word....NO!

 

[Travelor]

Yes, my NEO has the counter weight and it is great.

It allows the rest to hold a heavy rifle without resorting to increasing the screw tension to keep the rest from being "pushed" downward by the heavy rifle.

 

[JBO]

Heavy rifle yes, F Open rifle no

 

[M99]

Is there a disadvantage to using that counterweight with an F-Open rifle? Mine weighs about 21 pounds and that seems pretty heavy when I handle it? I've only just started to learn to use this rest.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The counterweight is there for when the lift springs are removed. It was actually designed for 10.5lb guns but is adjustable for a wide range. Its the way mike ratigan sells em- counterweight and no lift springs. Cant say how itll work with the springs installed- may wanna give mike ratigan a call and ask.

 

[seb]

Regular/standard model vs Ratigan model.

Basically they are the same rest.
Mechanically, the main differences are just the uplift springs and counterweight.

The 'regular' rest can be converted to Ratigan version every easily. (You only need to remove the uplift springs inside and add a counterweight designed for the weight of your rifle).
The Ratigan version can be converted to regular rest very easily, too. (You only need to add uplift springs and not use the provided counterweight)
They can be interchanged to each other within three minutes or so.

You can use (or add) a counterweight to a regular NEO only for heavier gun, say over than 30 lbs.
You would only mess with your regular NEO if you add a counterweight for an F-Open rifle. It is NOT needed, the joystick action would NOT be best too!

Based on my experience shooting Benchrest and F-Class comps in several countries as well, I also found/seen that some people prefer the joystick action to be firm / more firm (not light), some prefer to be light or as light as possible. The good thing is, the tension setting on your NEO rest is very easy to adjust, only by two thumb screws, no tool is needed. I had many users happy after I tuned/re-tuned their rests in the range.

-------

Re; counterweight
Paul Schmid (our first USA dealer, RIP) & I invented balance weight system (we called it "BWS") last 2004/2005 when we modified an old/original SEB rest for a heavy gun named "The Fist of God". I forgot with the weight of the rifle but it should be over than 40 lbs. We (only) put a weight on the front side, secured into the 'front' center shaft, to counter-balance the weight of the gun on the rest top. The owner let me shot the gun & rest combo for the first time. I shot probably 10 rounds and found the combo work just fine. I was able to move the joystick with light effort, just like the regular one. It was the first joystick rest with a counterweight, I believe.

Mike Ratigan's counterweight is originally designed for 10.5 - 13.5 lbs LV/HV gun. For heavier rifle you may need heavier weight.

---------

So now the question is, which one better?
My answer is: BOTH WORK, and work fine.
Anyone can also win any shooting matches with both models if he/she is capable to win....no matter is it with the 1pc bag or the 3pc bag config, etc.

With proper-calibrated counterweight, you actually have about 10% smoother joystick action. (But majority of the NEO users don't know the difference if Mike or I don't explain this or the why). The "cons" is you need one more item (the c/weight) to bring around.
With the regular NEO, which is already the SMOOTHEST in the market, you can use the rest "as is". It works for rifle from "zero" up to +/- 30 lbs.

Summary;
I can say it's more about USER'S PREFERENCE.
Find what/which one works better for you.

Hope this help,
seb.

 

[seb]

Yes, my NEO has the counter weight and it is great.

It allows the rest to hold a heavy rifle without resorting to increasing the screw tension to keep the rest from being "pushed" downward by the heavy rifle.

In addition;
The tension/clamping force to the inner plates on my rests (NEO/MAX/JOYpod) is not used to hold up the weight of the rifle but the uplift springs or the counterweight.
This will completely eliminates bullets falling out of the bottom of your groups when you shoot your rifle.
And that is actually why you can let the joystick "hang in the air" (if you want it) when you shoot your rifle off of the rest.

seb.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Thank you for stopping in and explaining seb.

 

[seb]

You're welcome Dusty.

 

[KWeigel]

Seb, what are your recommendations on running the max. You said the neo can be used as is with up to a 30lb rifle. I'm curious how the Max's are set up. Will be using a 21lb f open rifle.

 

[M99]

Thank you SEB for that very complete explanation. It really is an excellent piece of equipment.

One additional point you mentioned that I did not realize was that you can shoot it with the joystick hanging in the air. I thought I had to hold onto the Joystick to prevent it from moving under recoil. I'll have to experiment with leaving it untouched during firing.

 

[seb]

Seb, what are your recommendations on running the max. You said the neo can be used as is with up to a 30lb rifle. I'm curious how the Max's are set up. Will be using a 21lb f open rifle.

Use your MAX without counterweight for any rifle under 30 lbs.

seb.

 

[seb]

Thank you SEB for that very complete explanation. It really is an excellent piece of equipment.

One additional point you mentioned that I did not realize was that you can shoot it with the joystick hanging in the air. I thought I had to hold onto the Joystick to prevent it from moving under recoil. I'll have to experiment with leaving it untouched during firing.

Thank you, too!

Hang in the air vs hold the joystick;
Again it's about user's preference. I hold the joystick when shooting myself, just a habit, and I can make the needed adjustments when shooting fast that way.

seb.

 

[Kurt Blasser]

Regular/standard model vs Ratigan model.

Basically they are the same rest.
Mechanically, the main differences are just the uplift springs and counterweight.

The 'regular' rest can be converted to Ratigan version every easily. (You only need to remove the uplift springs inside and add a counterweight designed for the weight of your rifle).
The Ratigan version can be converted to regular rest very easily, too. (You only need to add uplift springs and not use the provided counterweight)
They can be interchanged to each other within three minutes or so.

You can use (or add) a counterweight to a regular NEO only for heavier gun, say over than 30 lbs.
You would only mess with your regular NEO if you add a counterweight for an F-Open rifle. It is NOT needed, the joystick action would NOT be best too!

Based on my experience shooting Benchrest and F-Class comps in several countries as well, I also found/seen that some people prefer the joystick action to be firm / more firm (not light), some prefer to be light or as light as possible. The good thing is, the tension setting on your NEO rest is very easy to adjust, only by two thumb screws, no tool is needed. I had many users happy after I tuned/re-tuned their rests in the range.

-------

Re; counterweight
Paul Schmid (our first USA dealer, RIP) & I invented balance weight system (we called it "BWS") last 2004/2005 when we modified an old/original SEB rest for a heavy gun named "The Fist of God". I forgot with the weight of the rifle but it should be over than 40 lbs. We (only) put a weight on the front side, secured into the 'front' center shaft, to counter-balance the weight of the gun on the rest top. The owner let me shot the gun & rest combo for the first time. I shot probably 10 rounds and found the combo work just fine. I was able to move the joystick with light effort, just like the regular one. It was the first joystick rest with a counterweight, I believe.

Mike Ratigan's counterweight is originally designed for 10.5 - 13.5 lbs LV/HV gun. For heavier rifle you may need heavier weight.

---------

So now the question is, which one better?
My answer is: BOTH WORK, and work fine.
Anyone can also win any shooting matches with both models if he/she is capable to win....no matter is it with the 1pc bag or the 3pc bag config, etc.

With proper-calibrated counterweight, you actually have about 10% smoother joystick action. (But majority of the NEO users don't know the difference if Mike or I don't explain this or the why). The "cons" is you need one more item (the c/weight) to bring around.
With the regular NEO, which is already the SMOOTHEST in the market, you can use the rest "as is". It works for rifle from "zero" up to +/- 30 lbs.

Summary;
I can say it's more about USER'S PREFERENCE.
Find what/which one works better for you.

Hope this help,
seb.

 

[Kurt Blasser]

If I have a Ratigan version, where can I get the extra weight, or where can I get a set of springs to re-install?

 

[seb]

If I have a Ratigan version, where can I get the extra weight, or where can I get a set of springs to re-install?

Depends on where did you get your rest.

You can get additional weight(s) from Mike Ratigan, or a new heavier counterweight from Ernie Bishop. They have different diameter.

In the USA, only Ernie and Mike are my dealers. Mike sells the NEO Ratigan for benchrest, Ernie sells the standard rests & Joypod.

seb

 

[seb]

Yes, my NEO has the counter weight and it is great.

It allows the rest to hold a heavy rifle without resorting to increasing the screw tension to keep the rest from being "pushed" downward by the heavy rifle.

No tension increasing is needed on the NEO / Mini / MAX rests. They all can accept any rifles from 'zero' up to about 30 lbs.
(Increasing tension screw on my rests has nothing to do with the ability to accept heavier rifle..so I'd guess your rest is the old/original seb rest?)
If your gun is heavier than 30 lbs you can; 1). Add the uplift spring's tension on the top or 2) Use a counterweight.
But I can see some shooters prefer a stiffer action than a light one, if this is the case you can adjust/add the front tension screws.

seb

 

[jimmymac]

ttt

Dated thread, but relevant with some good information provided by Seb on proper setup. This will be useful to me as I wade through this process on a new to me NEO Ratigan. Maybe it helps out someone else too.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I found it useful enough to realize something is not right with my rest (original SEB). Mine has a weight but will still not hold the weight of 14.8lb rifle. Tension screws make no difference, I wonder if some internal springs have been removed when the weight was added,... for a much lighter rifle?