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Seating Help

I was shooting some new brass with my 6.5x47 earlier today. I go to un-chamber a round and the bullet sticks in the barrel. I tried another and it did the same. I did almost no brass prep except for running an expander through the necks to remove any crinkles from shipment. I also chamfered the necks and ran some steel wool through them. I thought I was only seating the bullet .010" into the lands, but maybe I am not using my comperator properly. Maybe the new brass doesn't have much grip on the bullet? The rifle is shooting lights out, but I hunt with this as well so I need to be able to un-chamber a round. This is the first time seating this far out so I am not sure.

When you use the Hornady tool to find the lands, do you jam the bullet into the comperator to check the measurement? How much pressure is used with the comperator?
 
Most people confuse "in the lands" with "jam"

What you are doing is jamming the bullet .010"

If you back the bullet out .010", then you will be at "jam", seat bullet about .010" away from jam and start seating further away from jam until you find a load that shoots well again.
 
jpistolero02 said:
I was shooting some new brass with my 6.5x47 earlier today. I go to un-chamber a round and the bullet sticks in the barrel. I tried another and it did the same. I did almost no brass prep except for running an expander through the necks to remove any crinkles from shipment.

If you didn't resize the casenecks after running the expander through them, there's your problem.

If you did size after expanding....either the distance into the lands is much more than .010"or your neck tension is insufficient.

Bottom line if this is a hunting gun, don't seat them so long. You say it's shooting lights-out so I doubt a small change would kill it.
 
On Jam:
This is the no man's land of terminology ;) The first that I heard of the term jam used in reference to reloading, was in my reading in Precision Shooting, perhaps 30 years ago, when it was almost entirely devoted to benchrest. Prior to that time, I had never seen the term used for that purpose. Back then (and now, for me, and others of the old school) , jam was the maximum length that you could seat a bullet, without it being pushed farther into the case as the round was chambered, using the neck tension that would be used for the actual loads. The common method for determining this dimension was to size a case using whatever bushing the plan was to load with, seat a bullet a little long, measure the OAL, chamber the round, or dummy round, and measure again, to be sure that the bullet had been seated a little farther into the case by the round being chambered. By looking at the two measurements, which at this point could be taken off of the point of the bullet, and calculating the difference, and adding the amount that one wanted to be "off jam" it was a simple matter to reduce the total length of the combined seating stem and cap of a Wilson seater, by like amount. At that point one could do an ogive to head measurement, and record it for future reference, when the original set up bullet might not be available. If one was seating close to the point where the bullet first made light contact with the lands, one referenced that range of seating depths as so many thousandths into the lands, off the lands, as touching, or longer than or shorter than touch. It was only some time later, with the advent of the internet, and a general lack of any formal source of definition that jam was converted, ( some would say corrupted) from a noun to a verb, as in seating jammed, meaning seating an unspecified amount longer than touch, hardly a precise reference, sort of like saying that someone lives on the other side of town, instead of giving a street address. I any case, none of this makes a difference if you are using some sort of standardized procedure to come up with and record a seating depth, until an attempt is made to communicate that to someone else. There's the rub. To really communicate, given that there is no generally accepted definition, the best alternative is to tell a reader your exact procedure. Otherwise, if someone says they are seating so many thousandths shorter than jam, or longer or shorter than touch, the seating depth will not be accurately reproducible by readers unless you tell him your exact procedure for finding jam, or touch.
 
I keep good records of all my reloads. My seating objective is to find the first faint sign of land mark on the bullet, after cleaning them with 0000 steel wool. When I find it and measure to the ogive, I enter it in my book as the "kissing" point. When I find the best OAL, I mark it as either "jamb" or "jump".
 
Actually, in my limited experience with the practice, using an expander die instead of the expander ball has given superior case runout. The only detail that I might inquire about, as far as your procedure is concerned, is how much your case neck diameters are increased by seating bullets in them.
 
Thanks for the input. It has worked for me in the past. To be honest, I don't know that I have tried to un-chamber a round in this rifle for quite some time. I pretty much shoot the rifle when I load it. I will back off the depth a bit and hopefully get similar accuracy results.
 
Another thing I just realized is I might have been going way too far. If my measurement to ogive using the depth gauge is 1.55", I should be seating 1.56" for .010" into the lands. I was going .10" to 1.65".
 
;D I wish that I could tell you that I have never made that sort of mistake.....but I can't. Good for you, you found it.
Boyd
 
Just one stuck bullet on an outing can mess things up pretty well. I've left the bullet in there a couple times and wound up with a chamber full of powder. With a hunting rifle, easiest is just to stay away from the lands .....unless you remember to always fire the chambered round. But that's not always practical.
 
Ok, I promise this will be the last bit of confusion. I went and checked my notes and I had 1.960" to lands and I was seating 1.970". I think the problem is from my original lands measurement. I gave the rifle a good cleaning and measured again. I measured 5 times and came up with 1.947" to lands. Based on this latest measurement, I was jamming .023". Thanks for hearing me out on all of this. I have backed it down to 1.957" and don't have the stuck bullet issue. Now I just hope she shoots.
 
In my experience, I take the whole reloading kit, chronograph, wind flags, etc. to the range and sort it out. Hint: IMO the farther you are into the lands, the more pressure, so if you are backing out, perhaps more, but one of the reasons that I don't like where things are going, is that fellows look for "the load" on the internet. Loads vary with rifles and ambient conditions. Take it to the range, and do some loading and testing...and let us know what happens. Good luck.
 
I don't know why anyone would want to seat the bullet into the lands for hunting applications.

I'll share the relatively simple system I used which has served me very well for hunting reloads, even varmint hunting which demands accuracy levels in the 1/2 moa range.

I measure the max Cartridge Overall length (COL) using a home made tool similar to the one offered by Frankford Arsenal for each bullet type and rifle combo. I then back off .020" (sometimes even more depending on the length of the bullet / magazine considerations / etc.) and begin my accuracy testing at this point then moving backwards if necessary. In some cases I've discovered that certain combos shoots more accurately with the bullet seated well below published SAMMI Max COL. For me, functionality is just as important as accuracy for hunting reloads.
 
Some of my friends are interested in being able to take very long shots. They tape drop tables to their butt stocks, and carry rangfinders. This is a long way from having a quick shot at a disappearing whitetail in dense woods. Sometimes, if the planning was done well, the throat length and magazine length combine to make virtually every seating depth available. I agree that hunting loads must be reliable. In fact, I think that it is a good idea to remove the striker assembly and run them all through the action, to make sure that there are no problems. With the cost of an out of state, or country hunt, it only makes sense to take every precaution.
 

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