Scope mount quality, $5 vs $250 mounts

[Hamo]

I'm a palma shooter... not a lot of experience with scopes other than knockaround farm guns that are no tack drivers.

I'm finally putting together an accurate glass topped rifle, and wondered what kind of quality is required for scope mounts. I see everything from $5 to $250, and really don't know where to start. I've read over a bunch of threads here but no one seems to have an ideal mount other than "not cheap ones". How much do cheap rings really affect your group size?

 

[Sniper338]

Buy the best you can afford. Rings and bases are like anything else, you can buy a $50 ceiling fan that hums and shakes when its on, or you can buy a $200-$250 ceiling fan thats solid and dead silent... You can buy a cheap hogue rifle stock, or you can buy a manners or mcmillan...

Yes it makes a difference 100%. I have had cheap rings and bases, and I have the one brand of rings and bases I have now, and thats all I can speak for.

I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything. Others think differently though.

The alignment of the rings, and overall quality of each part is better the more you spend. I've had ONLY CHANGING TO HIGH QUALITY RINGS FROM CHEAP RINGS shrink a group size a quarter inch at 100 yards (1/4 inch), consistently... I changed nothing else...

I searched and searched, and researched more when I started building rifles several years ago and the best rings I could find are made by American Rifle Company. The quality is flawless. They squeeze together instead of clamp together, thus centering your scope on install by just tightening the screw to your preferred torque; and no matter how tight you end up tightening then they will never leave ring marks on a scope.

I have these rings on everything I own now. I won't buy anything else.

I DO use both their AR15 one piece rings, and the two piece rings, BUT I only use one piece bases, not a split base.

Not here to say they are the best money can buy... but to ME, personally, IMO, they are, and I still to this day havent seen anything I like better.

 

[JRS]

Buy the best you can afford. Rings and bases are like anything else, you can buy a $50 ceiling fan that hums and shakes when its on, or you can buy a $200-$250 ceiling fan thats solid and dead silent... You can buy a cheap hogue rifle stock, or you can buy a manners or mcmillan...

Yes it makes a difference 100%. I have had cheap rings and bases, and I have the one brand of rings and bases I have now, and thats all I can speak for.

I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything. Others think differently though.

The alignment of the rings, and overall quality of each part is better the more you spend. I've had ONLY CHANGING TO HIGH QUALITY RINGS FROM CHEAP RINGS shrink a group size a quarter inch at 100 yards (1/4 inch), consistently... I changed nothing else...

I searched and searched, and researched more when I started building rifles several years ago and the best rings I could find are made by American Rifle Company. The quality is flawless. They squeeze together instead of clamp together, thus centering your scope on install by just tightening the screw to your preferred torque; and no matter how tight you end up tightening then they will never leave ring marks on a scope.

I have these rings on everything I own now. I won't buy anything else.

I DO use both their AR15 one piece rings, and the two piece rings, BUT I only use one piece bases, not a split base.

Not here to say they are the best money can buy... but to ME, personally, IMO, they are, and I still to this day havent seen anything I like better.

"I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything". The rings you are bragging about are 7075 ALUMINUM

With each additional post you respond to, the clearer it is to see just how FOS you are ??? :

For the OP: You can purchase very well made rings for a reasonable cost. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest high dollar rings and bases.

 

[Sniper338]

"I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything". The rings you are bragging about are 7075 ALUMINUM

With each additional post you respond to, the clearer it is to see just how FOS you are ??? :

For the OP: You can purchase very well made rings for a reasonable cost. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest high dollar rings and bases.
[/quote]


I stand corrected, they are 7075 aluminum, the bolts are stainless, and my base's are stainless. I don't know why I was thinking the rings were metal then... Wont stop me from buying more though.

JRS - It must easy for you to sit behind a computer screen and call BS on people. I don't ever see you trying to help anyone, help problem solve, or aid in how to go about doing anything. Your post usually consist of useless information such as this:

For the OP: You can purchase very well made rings for a reasonable cost. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest high dollar rings and bases.

How about next time offering some advice on what rings you use, have used, or you have used and didn't like...

Of course you can purchase less expensive rings that work well. BUT as I recall, I said PERSONALLY, IMO, these are the best I've found and what I use.. ME.. I am talking about myself.. I have no room to talk about any other rings.

 

[JRS]

"I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything". The rings you are bragging about are 7075 ALUMINUM

With each additional post you respond to, the clearer it is to see just how FOS you are ??? :

For the OP: You can purchase very well made rings for a reasonable cost. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest high dollar rings and bases.

I stand corrected, they are 7075 aluminum, the bolts are stainless, and my base's are stainless. I don't know why I was thinking the rings were metal then... Wont stop me from buying more though.

JRS - It must easy for you to sit behind a computer screen and call BS on people. I don't ever see you trying to help anyone, help problem solve, or aid in how to go about doing anything. Your post usually consist of useless information such as this:

For the OP: You can purchase very well made rings for a reasonable cost. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest high dollar rings and bases.

How about next time offering some advice on what rings you use, have used, or you have used and didn't like...

Of course you can purchase less expensive rings that work well. BUT as I recall, I said PERSONALLY, IMO, these are the best I've found and what I use.. ME.. I am talking about myself.. I have no room to talk about any other rings.
[/quote]The OP referenced quality, not brand name. There is an array of quality rings on the market. The rings I use are a personal preference. As for helping someone out, when I mentioned the little BenchRite lathe to you, you had a clear negative opinion, due to not understanding the many useful functions it provides.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I'm a palma shooter... not a lot of experience with scopes other than knockaround farm guns that are no tack drivers.

I'm finally putting together an accurate glass topped rifle, and wondered what kind of quality is required for scope mounts. I see everything from $5 to $250, and really don't know where to start. I've read over a bunch of threads here but no one seems to have an ideal mount other than "not cheap ones". How much do cheap rings really affect your group size?

Whatever you end up getting, ignore all entreaties to "lap your rings."

There are many good brands of rings. For my match rifle I got the rings produced and offered by the maker of the action, Kelbly, and they are perfect. For other rifles I use Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts. For ARs, I like one piece models from ArmaLite, LaRue and others.

Do get a torque screwdriver and torque down the screws to the ring manufacturer's recommended settings. Do not exceed. That will be something like 40-60 inch pounds for the screws holding the rings to the base and 20-30 inch pounds for the rings holding the scope. Also, try to mount the scope so the rings are not near or adjacent to, the objective bell, the erector assembly (where the adjustment knobs are,) or the power ring and ocular.

 

[Hamo]

I'm a palma shooter... not a lot of experience with scopes other than knockaround farm guns that are no tack drivers.

I'm finally putting together an accurate glass topped rifle, and wondered what kind of quality is required for scope mounts. I see everything from $5 to $250, and really don't know where to start. I've read over a bunch of threads here but no one seems to have an ideal mount other than "not cheap ones". How much do cheap rings really affect your group size?

Whatever you end up getting, ignore all entreaties to "lap your rings."

There are many good brands of rings. For my match rifle I got the rings produced and offered by the maker of the action, Kelbly, and they are perfect. For other rifles I use Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts. For ARs, I like one piece models from ArmaLite, LaRue and others.

Do get a torque screwdriver and torque down the screws to the ring manufacturer's recommended settings. Do not exceed. That will be something like 40-60 inch pounds for the screws holding the rings to the base and 20-30 inch pounds for the rings holding the scope. Also, try to mount the scope so the rings are not near or adjacent to, the objective bell, the erector assembly (where the adjustment knobs are,) or the power ring and ocular.

Thanks for all your replies!

I'm just wondering why you would avoid lapping the rings... Sure, I figure if they were built right there would be no need to lap, but I can't see the harm in lapping them. Is there a reason not to lap, or a good reason to lap?

 

[slm9s]

I went thru the spectrum of cheap weaver rings, to Mk 4, Nightforce, and Badger rings. After many brands, here is what I buy:
For target type rifles, I use Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts.
For hunting type rifles, I use Talley 1 piece rings/bases.

 

[dreever]

Been there done that. Now I put Badger rings on everything. "Buy once, Cry once" is a good Mantra to go by.

Danny

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Thanks for all your replies!

I'm just wondering why you would avoid lapping the rings... Sure, I figure if they were built right there would be no need to lap, but I can't see the harm in lapping them. Is there a reason not to lap, or a good reason to lap?

Let me put it this way. There is nothing that you can improve on good quality rings with a hand lapping tool. On the other hand, you can easily (and most probably will) damage the rings with your hand lapping. If your base is misaligned, you need to fix that problem or if you can't, then get the Burris Signature rings with their floating plastic inserts; they will be able to find center and you can even get different thickness inserts to rectify a massively crooked base or even create a canted mount for moving the mechanical center of the scope and thus gain adjustment range for long distance shooting without a 20MOA ramp or similar.

 

[hogpatrol]

Burris Signature rings with inserts. Lapping (groan) is so old tech.

If they're good enough for these marksmen, they're good enough for me.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/ohara-sets-1000-yard-ibs-agg-records/

AND THIS

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek042/

 

[jpretle]

"Also, try to mount the scope so the rings are not near or adjacent to, the objective bell, the erector assembly (where the adjustment knobs are,) or the power ring and ocular."

Bayou shooter, please explain the above.

 

[JayDub]

I also like & use the Burris Signature rings and have them on a number of rifles... but I have had a few crack through the relief cut. I wish they would re-design the clamping mechanism to be a little more robust!

... and I didn't realize that aluminum had been reclassified! ;D


Edit: I should clarify that I'm also referring to the Signature "Zee" rings for the Weaver style bases... I've not used the other style!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

"Also, try to mount the scope so the rings are not near or adjacent to, the objective bell, the erector assembly (where the adjustment knobs are,) or the power ring and ocular."

Bayou shooter, please explain the above.

Surely. Clamping a scope with a ring near or even adjacent to the magnification selection knob or the erector assembly can create problems if you tighten the screws too much. I have encountered a few shooters over the decades who had mounted their scope with a ring right next to the magnification knob and were complaining the knob was difficult to turn. The erector inside the scope is an intricate assembly that has to be positioned very precisely and the last thing I want is to distort the main tube right next to it.

I may be overcautious, but when I pay north of $3000 for riflescopes I tend to err on the side of caution.

Plus I think it looks dorky and gets in the way of the adjustment knobs.

The most important thing is to use a torque screwdriver and set the screws to the appropriate tension.

 

[STOMP442]

Another vote for the Burris Signature Zee rings. Absolutely nothing better on the market I don't care how many screws it has or how tactical it is.

 

[normmatzen]

I have been using Aluminum weaver rails and Burris Signature ZEE rings on both my long range bench rest guns. A lot of my fellow shooters also use the Signature ZEE as well.
My home brew Mauser VZ-24 action-ed military barreled hunting rifle in 7X57 was drilled poorly for scope mounts, as are a lot of Mauser conversions. I finally put a set of Signature ZEE on it and now set-up is a dream!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

There is nothing that you can improve on good quality rings with a hand lapping tool. On the other hand, you can easily (and most probably will) damage the rings with your hand lapping.

I agree in principle, kind of, but there are some situations where lapping is beneficial and with reasonable care won't damage anything. The factory rings that come with Rugers, CZ's and Tikkas can often benefit significantly.

There is a reason I used the caveat "good quality" in my post; "good quality" and "Ruger rings" only belong in a sentence when the word "not" appears between them.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

In my opinion you dont have to spend a lot. Nothing is perfect, not even custom actions. To get a good fit on a factory receiver you really should bed the bases, then lap and bed the rings. Thats the only way to be sure everything is stress free. I dont care what action/ring/base combo you have they will not line up perfectly. Custom actions usually fit the bases well, but you still want to lap and bed the rings. The Burris z-rings are a good option with 2 piece bases.

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

I pondered this question as well. Quick answer-I have BAT direct scope mounts and couldn't be happier with them. Of course they are for BAT actions. When I purchase high-dollar items I take into account how much aggravation they spare. With these rings it takes me minutes to line up and zero!

 

[Gman]

Buy the best you can afford. Rings and bases are like anything else, you can buy a $50 ceiling fan that hums and shakes when its on, or you can buy a $200-$250 ceiling fan thats solid and dead silent... You can buy a cheap hogue rifle stock, or you can buy a manners or mcmillan...

Yes it makes a difference 100%. I have had cheap rings and bases, and I have the one brand of rings and bases I have now, and thats all I can speak for.

I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything. Others think differently though.

The alignment of the rings, and overall quality of each part is better the more you spend. I've had ONLY CHANGING TO HIGH QUALITY RINGS FROM CHEAP RINGS shrink a group size a quarter inch at 100 yards (1/4 inch), consistently... I changed nothing else...

I searched and searched, and researched more when I started building rifles several years ago and the best rings I could find are made by American Rifle Company. The quality is flawless. They squeeze together instead of clamp together, thus centering your scope on install by just tightening the screw to your preferred torque; and no matter how tight you end up tightening then they will never leave ring marks on a scope.

I have these rings on everything I own now. I won't buy anything else.

I DO use both their AR15 one piece rings, and the two piece rings, BUT I only use one piece bases, not a split base.

Not here to say they are the best money can buy... but to ME, personally, IMO, they are, and I still to this day havent seen anything I like better.

"I stay on the metal on metal side of the spectrum.. Metal bases, metal rings, I do not use aluminum anything". The rings you are bragging about are 7075 ALUMINUM

With each additional post you respond to, the clearer it is to see just how FOS you are ??? :

For the OP: You can purchase very well made rings for a reasonable cost. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest high dollar rings and bases.

I think what Sniper338 means is "steel on steel", because the last time I checked, aluminum is METAL.