Scope/gun shift

[ckaberna]

Ok, to all the experts in here this may be simple but I am not sure where to start. Shooting a new to me 6.5 creedmoor custom rem. 700, Bedded, action squared, krieger 24" barrel (I was told). Shooting Nosler factory match 140gr. @ 100 yards barrel warm (not hot)
Barrel was cleaned then used 4 shots sighting first, then tried a group:
1st shot 3/4" right
2nd shot bullseye (3/16" dot)
3rd shot 1/2" right
4th shot same hole as 2nd
5th shot 3/4" right 1/4 lower

Should have shot the 6th shot to confirm moved back to center but it was starting to rain.
Its like something is loose (not scope) or point of aim is shifting left/right every shot?? Action torqued to 65 in/lbs
Nightforce Comp scope (New to me as well)
NO wind ---100% high humidity ---90F
What would commonly cause this?
Thanks
Kevin

 

[dickn52]

You mount the same each time, or place your cheek weld in the same spot relative to the scope?

 

[dmoran]

I would "nut & bolt" it, double checking everything. Look for ring walking and/or mount walking.
After confirming them things, next I would try a different scope.
But in the end, yes, the scope could be shifting internally creating the POI shifts you've experienced.
Good Luck
Donovan

 

[ckaberna]

I try with cheek weld. Maybe not so good at that and on top of that I am not confident in my parrelax adjustment this scope is sensitive like my sightron "very sensitive" maybe something wrong with it to?
So would erratic trigger pull weight throw shots like this? I am talking 3/4 to 1 pound difference. It was supposed to had a jewel in it but when I got it there is a x-mark remy trigger??? Some shots are 1.75lbs some are 2.5 lbs?

 

[dickn52]

Lot's of things could be going on from the trigger to your finger placement on the trigger. Consistency is the key though no matter how you do it. Same thing produces same results (mostly).

 

[Jet]

Kevin

Do the steps Donovan recommends. It could just be a lousy load and the rifle/you would benefit from a good load development run on it. Factory ammo shooting a 1" group isn't uncommon even with quality stuff. If you don't reload, buy another brand of match ammo and give it a try.

Good Shooting

Rich

 

[joshb]

I try with cheek weld. Maybe not so good at that and on top of that I am not confident in my parrelax adjustment this scope is sensitive like my sightron "very sensitive" maybe something wrong with it to?
So would erratic trigger pull weight throw shots like this? I am talking 3/4 to 1 pound difference. It was supposed to had a jewel in it but when I got it there is a x-mark remy trigger??? Some shots are 1.75lbs some are 2.5 lbs?

The trigger is not as advertised? Ouch. I'd be making a phone call. Then how do you know it's a Krieger? How do you know the action was "squared"? Etc., etc. It seems to be shooting well with factory ammo, tho, for a start. Fairly standard.

 

[ckaberna]

You are correct, the barrel is not factory is all I KNOW. The stock does have an aluminum "block" in it. With some black material I believe is bedding compound. I also dychemed the lugs and contact is about even. Don't really know what else to check. There is a lot to learn when venturing into target shooting Thanks for all of your help. I owe you all one.
Kevin

 

[Knotwild]

I don't think you have shot it enough to start learning about the rifle. I bought a Tikka with a 20", 1/8 twist barrel and it scattered some factory Hornady 120 grain Amax into a 3" group. Switched to 129 grain Hornady American Whitetail soft points and it immediately went into a little less than a half inch (five shot groups). I also tried some Prime 130 grain and it also shot a little less than a half inch. As you try different things you will probably find a nice surprise.

Maybe the person you bought the rifle from could steer you in the right direction. But if the original owner told you it had a Jewel trigger and it came with an Remington X Mark factory trigger, who knows....

Do you have access to a bore scope?

 

[ckaberna]

Yes, I have a scope and from what I know it looks good (now that I cleaned it) I am looking oward to shooting more but this seem awful consistent?

 

[Lapua40X]

The fella told you it was a Krieger barrel - did he tell you whether it had 4 or 5R rifling or which of the twist rate options it was built with? (I believe there are 3 or 4).
I do use Nosler bullets in one of my rifles, but IMO Nosler is pretty stingy with their tech. data. The longer a bullet is the faster it has to spin in order to stabilize.
From my experience, Nosler likes to use terms like "standard twist rates" - which I believe they mean those twist rates corresponding to various bullet weights - which, IMO, does little to educate the new shooter/reloader or make him/her feel confident.
I am left with the impression that you do not reload. However, if you do reload, you'll find a wider range of bullets to try in our Creedmoor and choose those that are best suited to the barrel you have. Before you start chasing specters, find out exactly what you have and what its features actually are. If you don't reload, and if twist rate is a contributing factor, you may not be able to get there from here.

 

[243Lapua]

100% Humidity. Did you consider mirage drift. And at what magnification did you check the load. 2 things to consider. It happened to me on a custom 243 I had build by Bryant Custom. I could not get it to group well. Realized that I was getting mirage from morning dew and warmth of the ground. I waited a couple of month till weather got cooler and verified same load. Big difference and great accuracy.

Mirage causes target drift. Google it.

 

[T-shooter]

I try with cheek weld. Maybe not so good at that and on top of that I am not confident in my parrelax adjustment this scope is sensitive like my sightron "very sensitive" maybe something wrong with it to?
So would erratic trigger pull weight throw shots like this? I am talking 3/4 to 1 pound difference. It was supposed to had a jewel in it but when I got it there is a x-mark remy trigger??? Some shots are 1.75lbs some are 2.5 lbs?

If you can get to it, put some high quality grease on the sear. I tried Weapon Shield and it reduced my trigger pull by 1/4 lb over what I was using before. I'm sure you know this but I'll say it anyway. Once on target start progressively increasing pressure slowly on the trigger until it fires. Don't rush it. Once it fires don't instantly release the trigger for a second or so. Make sure your rifle is level, if nothing else, the reticle on the target if that works for you. A level built into the scope would be prefect.

As far as the scope possibly moving in the mounts, the method I use is a tiny drop of 2 part JB Weld epoxy under the rear cap after cleaning the surfaces. If any squishes out or you get any on the surface, an alcohol pad takes it right off. Your scope should already be centered so try to leave even gaps on both sides if the ring. Give it 24 hours to harden. The scope will not slide in the rings. I have always been able to remove the epoxy with my fingernail without damaging the finish on the scopes. The upper cap can easily be knocked off with the handle of a screwdriver with a light tap. Also, since you now should have equal gaps on the rear ring and cap, you can straighten the scope a small amount by using the screws as adjustments, loosen one side, tighten the other side.

Another issue that I had was getting the proper hold on the rifle. If your cheek presses too hard, the rifle will bounce under recoil sideways. If your grip or side force on your trigger hand is too much, it will bounce the other way. Ideally, it will be on or close to on target after it recoils and settles down. The rifle needs to be centered in your shoulder pocket exactly the same way each time. Your grip needs to be exactly the same too. Don't pull the stock too hard into your shoulder, firm is good, tight isn't usually.

 

[ckaberna]

100% Humidity. Did you consider mirage drift. And at what magnification did you check the load. 2 things to consider. It happened to me on a custom 243 I had build by Bryant Custom. I could not get it to group well. Realized that I was getting mirage from morning dew and warmth of the ground. I waited a couple of month till weather got cooler and verified same load. Big difference and great accuracy.

Mirage causes target drift. Google it.

100%----I was actually in between rains. The first shot I fired there was a "fog" of vapor beside the trees along where I shoot. Never seen this before. I will try again when weather clears. I guess this is good experience to know how it shoots in ALL conditions.
Thank you for your input

 

[ckaberna]

If you can get to it, put some high quality grease on the sear. I tried Weapon Shield and it reduced my trigger pull by 1/4 lb over what I was using before. I'm sure you know this but I'll say it anyway. Once on target start progressively increasing pressure slowly on the trigger until it fires. Don't rush it. Once it fires don't instantly release the trigger for a second or so. Make sure your rifle is level, if nothing else, the reticle on the target if that works for you. A level built into the scope would be prefect.

As far as the scope possibly moving in the mounts, the method I use is a tiny drop of 2 part JB Weld epoxy under the rear cap after cleaning the surfaces. If any squishes out or you get any on the surface, an alcohol pad takes it right off. Your scope should already be centered so try to leave even gaps on both sides if the ring. Give it 24 hours to harden. The scope will not slide in the rings. I have always been able to remove the epoxy with my fingernail without damaging the finish on the scopes. The upper cap can easily be knocked off with the handle of a screwdriver with a light tap. Also, since you now should have equal gaps on the rear ring and cap, you can straighten the scope a small amount by using the screws as adjustments, loosen one side, tighten the other side.

Another issue that I had was getting the proper hold on the rifle. If your cheek presses too hard, the rifle will bounce under recoil sideways. If your grip or side force on your trigger hand is too much, it will bounce the other way. Ideally, it will be on or close to on target after it recoils and settles down. The rifle needs to be centered in your shoulder pocket exactly the same way each time. Your grip needs to be exactly the same too. Don't pull the stock too hard into your shoulder, firm is good, tight isn't usually.

Than you for your input... Not sure about getting to sear I will look. I already slowly increase trigger pressure but maybe I need to concentrate on the release part...Cant really say what I do???
I do not believe the scope is moving (externally) I lapped the rings to around 95% and have what I would call a "perfect" contact.
Now the hold thing, that could be be an issue...I concentrate but I know its not same every time. I know you replied to my other post/question the seating issue I am having is with a totally different rifle. I just got this one yesterday.
Thank you for you input.
Kevin

 

[dickn52]

Everyone should concentrate on the fact that he sends every other bullet wide. Which should not be a mechanical malfunction, but more of a shooter issue. Just my opinion though.
"1st shot 3/4" right
2nd shot bullseye (3/16" dot)
3rd shot 1/2" right
4th shot same hole as 2nd
5th shot 3/4" right 1/4 lower"

 

[dsculley]

Try this the next time you are shooting. As you squeeze the trigger, what do you see? Do you see that big, pretty target in your scope? Is your reticle a bit fuzzy? If so, you are concentrating on the target instead of the reticle. The reticle in your scope is like the front sight of your pistol. You need to concentrate on your reticle. Line up on your target, adjust your parallax, then concentrate on your reticle. If you are concentrating on your target instead of the reticle, the reticle can move without you realizing it.

FWIW

 

[Knotwild]

Everyone should concentrate on the fact that he sends every other bullet wide.

You were able to look at the data and see a pattern. All of us are lucky to have a community willing to share knowledge and experience. Thanks, I joined in and learned something. Sometimes you just have to boil it down.

 

[BoydAllen]

Look, someone told you the trigger was a Jewel and it was not? If this was the fellow that sold you the rifle I would ask for my money back. If he will misrepresent one thing, he will do the same for another, and all that you have is his word on what the barrel is. Bad business. On the scope, bolting together is not the right way to go. Lap and or bed the rings, after making sure that the base(s) are properly installed, and bedded if needed. If the rings are Burris Signature then you only need be concerned with the base(s).

 

[gotcha]

Look, someone told you the trigger was a Jewel and it was not? If this was the fellow that sold you the rifle I would ask for my money back. If he will misrepresent one thing, he will do the same for another, and all that you have is his word on what the barrel is. Bad business. On the scope, bolting together is not the right way to go. Lap and or bed the rings, after making sure that the base(s) are properly installed, and bedded if needed. If the rings are Burris Signature then you only need be concerned with the base(s).

I agree with Boyd on this one. A good Smith will cut a small slab off chamber end of bbl. for proof of Manufacturer, twist rate, date of mfg. and bore/grove dia. ...... My smith adds (electric pencil) reamer dimensions to the bbl underneath and just forward of lug. Which is good practice and verification of his work................. If your action has been trued do you see evidence that bolt face and bolt nose have been machined square? Not to say this is the only machine operation for action truing but a good indicator none the less. Despite all of this "making friends" with a new rifle is important. Once this is done Groups just naturally shrink. My personal challenge is to find and consistently hold my rifles Butt consistently in the shoulder pocket that has been mentioned above. Getting out of the pocket will throw shots right or left. FWIW Good shootin' !!!!