Savage Target Action AccuTrigger Tuning?

[RonAKA]

Based on good experience with a Savage rimfire AccuTrigger, I bought a LRPV with a Target AccuTrigger.

In the Rimfire, I did some minor tuning and modifications which cost essentially nothing, and resulted in a trigger that is very reliable at a 12 oz pull. All the gory details are here:

Savage Rimfire AccuTrigger Tuning

With this experience I had high expectations for the Target AccuTrigger, which is of a different design, and significantly more expensive. From the factory you are supposed to be able to set it down to 6 oz..

When I first modified the rimfire, it was quite easy to get the pull down to this range, by simply reducing tension in the AccuTrigger spring. However, it became unreliable, and locked up easily if you closed the bolt too quickly, or pressed the AccuTrigger leaf at a slight angle. I corrected that by increasing pull to about 10-12 oz., and increasing the tension in the sear spring. It is now very reliable at that setting, going hundreds of rounds without a lock up.

Now the issue. My Target AccuTrigger was useless when set near 6 oz., and locked up if you looked at it out of the corner of your eye! I probably have it up to 10-12 oz. now, just like my inexpensive rimfire. The only thing I've done is increase tension in the AccuTrigger spring. However, it is no where near as reliable as my rimfire? It probably locks up every 15 rounds or so.

Has anyone tried any tuning or mods to the Target AccuTrigger? I'm thinking the AccuTrigger leaf spring needs to be lighter, and some side to side clearances may need to be tightened up, or something done to let the AccuTrigger mechanism slide more freely without initiating a lock up. Not suggesting anything radical. I've never had an unexpected or accidental fire with the rimfire even with the modifications I made.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated. I'm thinking this thing must be able to better than this. I found this link on the Savage trigger, but not sure how applicable it is, as it does not appear to be an AccuTrigger?

http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/savage/

 

[pdog06]

The reason you havent gotten any accidental misfires is because the trigger blade is doing what it was designed for. Without that blade it woulda went off for sure. Unfortunately I am not a big fan of the blade.. Just cant get used to it after shooting an aftermarket trigger.

I currently have 3 target actions and am gonna replace the last target accutrigger with a SSS trigger this weekend(The other two have a SSS and a Rifle Basix SAV2 trigger in them.). I am also taking out a standard accutrigger off my deer gun this weekend and replacing it with a Rifle basix SAV1.

I have had many Savages with the accutrigger, and some work really good and others have done the exact same thing as you describe. Have yet to hear any solid reason of why it does it, but the only fix I've seen is to add pull weight.

Hope you figure something out, as Im sure ALOT of people would like to know the answer.

FYI, if you modify yours and happen to mess it up, I'll have a new take-off trigger lying around that Id sell you if you need it ;D

 

[itchyTF]

pdog,

Which SSS trigger do you have? The $85 one you can install yourself or the one they install? How would you rate it?

I have a Precision Target action with the accutrigger which I recently lightened. It doesn't feel consistent. Some shots are a surprise (light) and others feel much heavier. No lock-ups.

It's a varmint rifle so I don't want the trigger too light but I really want it consistent.

 

[pdog06]

pdog,

Which SSS trigger do you have? The $85 one you can install yourself or the one they install? How would you rate it?

I have a Precision Target action with the accutrigger which I recently lightened. It doesn't feel consistent. Some shots are a surprise (light) and others feel much heavier. No lock-ups.

It's a varmint rifle so I don't want the trigger too light but I really want it consistent.

mine are their "Competition trigger", which is the one you can install yourself. They are adjustable from 10oz- 2lbs. However, they are not $85 anymore, they are more like $95. Please let me know if you can get them for $85, as I may take a couple more .
I love the ones that I have owned. The only problems I have ever had with them was that on one I didnt put any med. strength loktite on the adj screws and it came unadjusted from the recoil. A little med loktite(or nail polish ) and problem was solved. It isnt a problem with just the SSS trigger though, as I had this happen with my SAV2 also.

I would say you wont find a better trigger for that price, and I dont regret buying any of mine.

 

[RonAKA]

Well I took my AccuTrigger apart to see what I am dealing with here. The parts seem to be better in quality and finish, compared to the rimfire version. The AccuTrigger leaf is stamped and shows some evidence of not being totally cleaned up. It also sits very loosely inside the real trigger, with lots of side to side clearance. It would seem it may benefit from some spacer washers to center and tighten it up some. Did not do it this time.

I checked the pull and it was surprising lighter than I thought it was -- 7 oz. A couple of questions:

1. The article on the Adjusting the non AccuTrigger that I included in my original post said not to put any lubricant on the sear itself. I found this one has a liberal amount of moly or graphite paste on it. What are your thoughts on lubricant or not on the sear? I just put back what was there for now, and used a dry graphite coating on the other parts, as I did with my rimfire.

http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/savage/

2. This AccuTrigger seems to have most issues with lock up on closing the bolt. On my rimfire if that happened the blade leaf would immediately go tight indicating a lock up. This one is different. The leaf stays loose, but when you pull the trigger it just gives a click, instead of firing. Any idea what is happening different there? It does not seem to be the leaf that is locking the mechanism. Also, I can't seem to replicate that mode of lock up in the shop. For now all I did was cut a turn off the leaf spring to lighten the leaf pull, but I don't think that is going to solve the problem.

 

[RonAKA]

Had gun to range yesterday. "Clicks" instead of fires were reduced to 2 out of 51, instead of the more typical 10 or so. So improvement, with it still set at 7 oz.. Probably acceptable now, but I would like it better. Still interested in lube or no lube on the sear, and some thoughts on what really is locking up.

The photo below on the right shows the "AccuRelease" catching the sear. However, when that happens the AccuRelease obviously locks up. In the "click" but no bangs that I experience, there is no lock up whatsoever of the AccuRelease. In my rimfire if I am too fast or rough with the bolt, you immediately have an AccuRelease plate lock up. You know as soon as you put your finger on the Release.

 

[Laurie]

Ron,

my .223 Savage PT based F/TR rifle is based on a secondhand action that came from a custom varmint rifle that got broken up and the bits sold on to others for various projects. It had been set to a minimum pull weight in the varmint rifle role. I don't know how many rounds had gone through it, not a lot I think.

Anyway, the pull was at minimum and was excellent as it came so I left well alone. I just had to be very careful on bolt closure and did have the Accutrigger lock-up problem the first time I used it in a long-range BR match and tried to get the shots off too fast in the first group.

However, the exact same problem you describe - not central blade lock-up, but the half-way fire, where the external sear can be seen to drop but not the full distance and the effect is similar to pressing the trigger with the safety applied on some non-Savage designs - started occasionally just after 1,000 of my rounds through it, and got worse very quickly. And when I say quickly, I mean really quickly with an occasional recock needed to moving to have to take several goes for each shot over the course of maybe 30 or 40 rounds. I did find that applying the tang safety after bolt closure then taking it off before each shot allowed me to carry on through a match with the trigger operating correctly. But even that soon stopped working and the sear would half-fall as soon as the bolt was closed without touching the trigger.

Setting the pull weight substantially higher (not measured so far), by two full turns of the adjuster screw has cured the problem completely - as other Savage owners told me that it would. I'll live with a heavier pull in return for reliability, but it is a pity that you can't use the advertised setting around 6-8 ounces.

 

[memilanuk]

Generally, running mechanical devices at the extreme ends of their range of adjustment is not a recipe for consistent behavior in my experience.

Backing the trigger off from 6 oz to about 8-10 oz. cures about 99% of the 'issues' with the Target Accutrigger - for me. I have had people try running my rifle and still have problems, considerably more so than I do. I don't 'slap' the bolt handle down the way I see a lot of people with Rem-chesters do - I operate it pretty quickly, but I must decelerate it a bit to keep it from 'hitting' the bottom of the slot when closing the bolt. I also make considerable effort to pull the trigger *straight* back, with no side-to-side pressure - which is the most common cause of the 'click - no bang' symptom as described. People don't realize they are not pulling straight back and end up putting some side pressure on the safety blade, which then rubs against the slot in the trigger shoe, and trips the sear but with the safety blade not fully depressed and swung out of the way. Hence the 'click' but no 'bang'...

 

[RonAKA]

Thanks for the comments. I will try intentionally pushing the AccuRelease blade sideways while pulling it back in the shop, to see if that trips the sear. My feeling is that this is not an issue. I clearly feel the normal pressure on the real trigger before it goes click.

I'm starting to think the issue may be with the safety, and not the AccuTrigger itself. My rimfire with the AccuTrigger occasionally has the safety go ON unintentionally. I still don't understand how it happens. It is almost as if closing the bolt pulls the safety on. I don't think I am inadvertently putting it on. In any case when it happens in the rimfire, I get a normal pull and just a click. I immediately think misfire, and eject a perfectly good shell, and load another one, and get a second click, before I realize the safety is on.

So, with Laurie's comments, I'm thinking the safety on this centerfire may be going on or partly on. The symptoms are the same as my rimfire. That said I never use the safety on my centerfire, nor have I intentionally taken it off to solve the click problem. However, when it goes into click mode, it seems to stay there as if the safety is at least partly on. Thoughts on how to check the safety?

 

[RonAKA]

Worked on it again today. Yes, by pushing quite hard sideways I can make the AccuRelease catch the sear. Quite sure I have never pushed the AccuRelease that far off center when shooting for real. I also was really really rough closing the bolt, and I could occasionally get the AccuRelease to lock up. But again it was obvious it was locked up, and this is not the way it goes click while not firing.

Then looked at the safety. It is a three position device which allows nothing, no bolt movement, or firing in the full safe. In the half safe it allow bolt action, but not firing. In both of these positions I believe the trigger mechanism is physically blocked and you can't move the trigger. The sear stays in place no matter how hard you pull. In the fire position, it fires normally.

What I learned was that in the mid position, you can't get any click or trigger movement, so that is not the mode it is in when I get the click and no fire. If it is the safety, then it must be going into some other half way position between mid and full off. The block does slide further to full off and springs back some, so it may be possible. I found some plumbers putty in various places from the bedding job I did, and cleaned that out. So I'm hoping that it may stay in the full fire position more reliably now, but I did not get that "ah ha" moment, saying that was it.

Savage uses a little spring that sits in three recesses machined in the safety block, to hold it in each of the three positions. It almost seems the full fire position recess is a little short of where it should be, and the recess pulls the block back some from the maximum travel position. That might be the root of the issue...

 

[memilanuk]

Ron,

Dunno what to tell you. Between four shooters, I think Team Savage has put (at least) somewhere over the range of 20k rds through multiple guns with Target AccuTriggers over the last 3 years, and we don't seem to have the issues that you're experiencing - where the trigger just clicks and doesn't let the sear fall with no operator error involved. To my knowledge, we've had zero problems involving the mechanical safety (i.e. not the trigger blade safety). I'm not saying its impossible, but I do think its somewhat uncommon and maybe you should be calling Customer Service - though their response is likely to be 'send it in' which probably won't satisfy your curiosity

Monte

 

[RonAKA]

Between four shooters, I think Team Savage has put (at least) somewhere over the range of 20k rds through multiple guns with Target AccuTriggers over the last 3 years, and we don't seem to have the issues that you're experiencing - where the trigger just clicks and doesn't let the sear fall with no operator error involved.

Monte, thanks for your comments. To be clear, I'm sure the sear falls, and that is the click I hear, but something is blocking the firing pin. Suspect only the safety could be doing that. Although I took the whole trigger off, as well as the safety block, it is still not clear to me how the block (which only slides forward and backward) can block the firing pin in one position but not another. I guess I don't understand how the safety block interacts with the bolt and firing pin, beyond blocking the bolt movement, and the trigger itself.

 

[RonAKA]

The next time I'm at the range I will try to move the safety forward (towards fire position), if it acts up and does a click only instead of a fire. Hoping this will not cause a "Remington Moment". Failing that, it will be interesting to see if moving the safety makes it fire on the next try. Currently when it fails, I do a full lift of the bolt, and put it down again. Many times I just get the click again, instead of the fire.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

While I do not advocate you following my advice, what I did to lighten my two Savage triggers was to remove the irritating piece of tin in the middle of the trigger....After that both triggers could be brought below 6oz....They would stay functional at this weight for 100 150 rounds then fail to work requreing breakdown and readjustiing...I finally have bothworking permanently at 2oz by selling and replacing with actions that take Jewell triggers..
LT

 

[CaptainMal]

Interesting. Just had a 6 Dasher built on one of those new dual-port Savage actions. Made about 40 cases and once that little "doo-hicky" thing in the middle of the trigger would not depress. Thanks to having read this post, I just re-cocked and it worked.

After, I slammed the bolt closed repeatedly and could NOT duplicate the condition. I mean I slammed that bolt abusively. ???

10 oz. That's what this target version is set at. My guess is it will soon be "history" to me.

Thanks for the topic and information.

 

[RonAKA]

Well, I went to the range today to see what it was like after my latest work (not much really just cleaning, and dry graphite lubrication). 48 rounds fired, and did not have one incident of click no fire. Probably too early to declare victory yet. I made sure the safety was full off before shooting, and a couple of times during the shooting. So I guess we will see what happens. If it keeps performing well, I may see if I can set the pull lower than the current 7 oz..

 

[LRPV]

As mentioned earlier, you have to pull straight back on the entire trigger "assembly?" Both the blade and the actual trigger. Any movement of the trigger without the center section being pulled back far enough to let it fire will lock it up. I am shooting mine just like it came from the factory and never messed with it. I can let say 10 people that have never shot a rifle with this kind of trigger and 8 of them will lock it up. Safely try this, pull on the trigger and don't depress the center piece and see if this creates the same problem you have been experiencing. It'll get better just hang with it. Jason

 

[RonAKA]

Jason, I'm totally convinced the issue I am having with this thing has nothing to do with pulling the AccuRelease off center, and not straight back. If you lock it up that way the AccuRelease locks up, and you know right away you have a problem. I can simulate that type of failure, and actually it is quite hard to do. You have to push quite off center, and it is more likely in one direction than the other. I've very familiar with this issue as that is the way my rimfire fails if it fails.

The problem I was having was when the AccuRelease pulled back very freely, and the trigger pulled normally, but nothing happens but a click. My rimfire has never failed in this unusual manner.

 

[LRPV]

We may be talking about two different things then. I just know that when I have let friends shoot mine that they get it to lock up quite frequently and it is usually because they put pressure on the side of the trigger before the accutrigger blade thing is pulled back far enough to let it be fired. Good luck with it, I like mine. Jason