Savage receiver screws misaligned

[jchristo1]

Has anyone had trouble with Savage receiver scope base mounting holes being mis-aligned with the bore?

I had trouble mounting a Nikon 8-32 X 50 on a brand new Savage Model 12 VLP BDM. I tried using inexpensive Weaver bases in every combination of front to back and rotating them 180 degrees with identical results - about 20 minutes of arc misalignment as measured by a good bore sight and centering the scope windage adjustment. I confirmed this later using the bore sight and another laser aligned with a straightedge across a front and back receiver screw which gave me 18 MOA misalignment. The total scope adjustment is only 20 MOA.

I called Savage and they asked me to return the gun. So I did. I called and now they're waiting for it to come up in the queue for their gunsmith - 2 to 3 weeks they say. The guy I talked to didn't think it was a problem for me to have to wait 5 weeks (it takes a week to ship each way) to get my gun back. I told him I thought that was ridiculous for a brand new gun that should have had those holes drilled correctly in the first place.

He says they're gonna repair it - so they'll weld up the old holes and drill new ones. I didn't like that answer because I bought a new gun and I shouldn't have a re-worked gun. I asked to speak with a supervisor and the guy I was speaking with promised someone would call by tomorrow morning. That was three days ago and no call.

I've seen online posts about various Savage models having this problem. Apparently the 'New Definition of Accuracy' includes having some ape with a Craftsman hand tool drill the receiver holes.

Has anyone else had this type of problem with Savage? Is there a way to get it resolved?

 

[Taildrag15X]

Have you thought that it may not be the scope base tapped holes?

It's been a subject here before about action/lug/barrel alignment or lack there of, and the action threads not being "true" to the boltway.

 

[jhord]

I agree with what Mike said, it may not be the scope base screw holes. And now that Savage has the gun, you won't know. You'll get the gun back in 6-8 weeks with a snippet of a test target and a copy of a repair order that doesn't give any details. It is what it is. They seem to be getting really good at turning out rifles with a built-in 20-30 MOA alignment problem. And from what I have read around here, it seems endemic to the model 12 short actions.

 

[jchristo1]

Thanks guys. Yes, that could be the problem and it probably makes more sense. I don't have the equipment to measure that kind of misalignment versus screw hole misalignment. My laser measurements just say something is misaligned and I assumed it was the screw holes. I'm screwed either way.

It seems like it would be easy to avoid either of these problems with machine tools made in the last 30 years. I suppose now they'll put a pry bar on the barrel and bend it 20 MOA to the left, which would be another new definition of accuracy.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I suppose now they'll put a pry bar on the barrel and bend it 20 MOA to the left, which would be another new definition of accuracy.

No, they use a hydraulic shop press!

It's hard to say exactly what they do as jhord knows all to well, as long as you get it back and it shoots straight.....which brings up a question from me.

Did you ever fire the rifle?

I only ask this as I've seen these fancy-smancy Laser Bore Guide thingys not even be close.

Was it one that looks like a cartridge or one that slides in the muzzle?

I've never used anything other that a B&L, Tasco bore tool or look through the bore with my eye on a 50 td. target and adjust to that.

 

[Rustystud]

Call the main number for Savage. Ask for Joe Degrande, Customer Support Manager. He will get your problem resolved and pronto. First class guy even though he is a yankee.
Nat Lambeth

 

[normmatzen]

This question is a joke, right?

Don't get me wrong, I have a Savage hunting rifle and a long range bench gun based on the Savage PTA.

Haven't you noticed how many older designs of scope bases had two horizontal screws on the rear mount that you could swing the rear of the scope from here to eternity! Nobody could put scope base screws on with any accuracy, least of all Savage!

I use one of these old systems on my hunting rifle ( gun dates back to 1958, flat back receiver), no problem!

 

[jhord]

IMO those types of scope rings/bases are great for zeroing a scope and keeping it optically centered, I use them on my model 12 6BR. And I have a PTA 6BR that just happens to have nearly perfectly aligned scope base holes and whatnot, so I just use a picatinny rail on it. However, if the scope is not sitting over the centerline of the bore, then you only have one point of "no wind zero" as far as windage goes. Not a big deal if you mainly shoot short range or only at one distance. It can be a very annoying issue if you shoot a wide range of distances. Again, just my opinion.

 

[gtl1946]

My Savage had the site base screw holes drilled off several thousandths towards the front screw holes . We found that out by locking the action in a Bridgeport vise and indicating each hole . When I called Savage I found out that Savage was bought out a while ago and they are not responsible for the "old" Savage's mistakes . You got it _ _ _ I have to pay MY gunsmith to fix it as they do not want to be responsible for working on "someone else's" rifle .

 

[jchristo1]

So after getting the run around from customer service at Savage, I got in touch with Joe DeGrande (thank you, Nat Lambert). He is a straight shooter and took care of the problem immediately. He told me my screw hole misalignment measurements were correct and that there was also a problem with the barrel, so they scrapped my gun and are sending a new one that's been tested with a scope on a 100 yard range.

 

[dmickey]

Well, I guess it's true! You get what you pay for!! ;D

 

[glbpmc]

I had the problem on one and just used leupold rings with the rear side to side screw to make it shoot.

 

[Jim See]

I just had one in the shop to mount a picitiny rail rings and scope, model 116fsak. Rear of the rail was offset to the right.
I took a 3 foot steel straight edge lined on the reciever and measure the gap to barrel near the muzzle on rt and left side. Barrel was straight to within.003" to the reciever. the scope base with the straight edge was out close to .095" at the muzzle. Scope ran out of windage to get it on target. GO SAVAGE!

 

[placek59]

I've also heard of people using the burris signature rings with whatever offset necessary to move the scope left and right, instead of up and down like they are normally used for....

I hope they get it fixed and take care of you. Any company can make mistakes (some more than others :), especially in mass production. It's how the customer service works out that really counts IMO.

 

[pdm25150]

From what i was told by some one i trust and who know's, The hole's are drilled and tapped then the action is heat treated that is where the warping come's in during heat treating. Strange part is it is mostly model 12 actions or at least what i have herd lately.

 

[memilanuk]

Back in 2009 when we toured the plant, Savage had two rows of five CNC machining centers - they probably have more now.

As I understood it, the actions started as a hunk of steel, mounted in a jig/fixture. They went thru once to do most of the machining, and then the receivers got re-mounted so they could get at the rest of the spots that needed machining. But everything - scope base holes to action screw holes to trigger pin holes to threads for the barrel, etc. was done in two passes thru the machine. This is in contrast to the old way of having something like 27-28 machining stations where 'batches' of actions were processed for each step - with the associated errors of being mounted and machined, then unmounted and sent to the next station, then mounted in another fixture, machined some more, taken down and sent to the next station, so on and so forth.

There are some other steps that are done post-machining that could adversely affect the straightness of the receivers... like heat treating. With the thinner 'strips' holding the ends of the receiver together as compared to the solid body of a single-shot Target Action... I could easily see that causing some grief.

I'm just having a hard time envisioning how *just* the scope base screws could be noticeably off - and nothing else - if the receiver is machined in two passes, and the action is heat treated all at once. AFAIK, the 'target' barrels do not get ran thru the barrel-bender - just the light-weight hunting barrels. As I understand it, they tend to need it more, partly as a result of the amount of metal being relieved fairly rapidly during the contouring process.

I have had several Savage replacement barrels on my 12 F/TR rifle - and have had to make use of the Burris Signature Zee rings mentioned above to get the scope and barrel pointing the same general direction. I've had them point up, down, left, right and center, all on the same receiver, depending on which barrel and where they were headspaced. By way of contrast, I've mounted up 'name-brand' custom barrels on the same (un-trued) action with the same factory recoil lug (thicker Target Action lug, not the stamped ones still used on some hunting rifles) and the barrel was pretty much dead-nuts centered up.

Everybody is pretty quick to assume the problem is with Savage's scope base screw holes. In some cases it may be... but it could be the threads on the barrel, the recoil lug, the barrel nut, the scope base itself (wonder why *those* never get accused of anything?), etc. Not saying it is or isn't in any particular situation, but in my limited experience its never yet been the scope base screw holes.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Just for fun, try this:

Loosen the barrel nut and wiggle the action on the threads - it's loose, class 1. Now check the nut to barrel threads - much tighter, class 2 to class 3. My smith had one of my barrels in the lathe and was working on it. Every time he tightened the barrel nut, the action runout was different, and in a different direction. He believes that it is caused by the looseness of the receiver threads. This applies to the small shank actions.. I don't have a large shank PTA.

We found a technique that works for getting the barrel on straighter. I'm still experimenting with it, but when I tighten the barrel nut, I'm holding the receiver with an action wrench that puts (as closely as possible) only axial pressure on the receiver. It doesn't get it on perfectly straight, but it is far bettter than a 20 MOA bore chasing match.

 

[1holeaddict]

Call the main number for Savage. Ask for Joe Degrande, Customer Support Manager. He will get your problem resolved and pronto. First class guy even though he is a yankee.
Nat Lambeth

This is where i ended up after 6 months of BS from Effie. and 3 trips back and forth with a Model 12 Benchrest . Joe took care of me and got me a new rifle and even put a cheap Bushnell scope on it.

 

[calib]

IMO those types of scope rings/bases are great for zeroing a scope and keeping it optically centered, I use them on my model 12 6BR. And I have a PTA 6BR that just happens to have nearly perfectly aligned scope base holes and whatnot, so I just use a picatinny rail on it. However, if the scope is not sitting over the centerline of the bore, then you only have one point of "no wind zero" as far as windage goes. Not a big deal if you mainly shoot short range or only at one distance. It can be a very annoying issue if you shoot a wide range of distances. Again, just my opinion.

where would i get one of these as i have an alignment problem on my sa stevens model200 im maxed out to the side on my scope and just barely centered.

 

[chestsprings]

my story: repeated it many times in the last 3 yrs.

have a vlp, with 3 barrels, Shilen , & McGowan. 223, 22-250, & Rem 6mm. change barrels all the time. for the last 3 yrs. with every barrel change, the 223, & 22-250 shot 20+ inches right, & low at 100 yds. 6mm worst.
Initially , when i had the factory 22-250 barrel on it, I had sent the rifle to Joe, as some posters have, Savage checked it over, & returned it, saying it was in specs . I sold the factory 22-250 barrel.

using burris inserts, all the 10's & 20's i could use, I could get it zeroed at 100 yds. took it to a master machinest ( not a gun smith) , made a brass plug, screwed into the action, & & verified from the front to the back of the action there is a difference of .046, yea!!!! not a mis print, .046

then I put it in the safe, & thought, the hell with it. in Nov. 2011, while messing with some of my other rifles, I pulled it out. thought this needs to be fixed, & why not contact SSS. I called SSS ( Fred). explained what I had, would he look at it. said yes, send it in.

with in 5 weeks from sending it in, it arrived back.

I know this will blow some minds, as I read all theses "tales of woe" , about charging credit cards, don't answer phones, miss promised dates, etc. not saying they didn't have problems, but I never did in my situations, & I've had quite a few dealing with SSS. I never met any one from SSS, but I have always been treated fair, & never had any of the situations people like to expand on, some of them yrs. ago.

SSS said the threads on my action were cut crooked from the factory. they corrected them.

I took the rifle to the range in Feb. 2012, with all burris inserts , zero, all setting of the scope set to mid range, at 100 yds. it shoots , with both 223, & 22-250 barrels, approx. 2 to 2 1/4 inches right. still shoots low, but I correct that with a shim under the rear.
a solution would have been to "shave .046 off the action, but that would involved heat treating the action again. simple solution, shim, or shave the Farrell Picatinney base.

on savages , if some thing is driving you nuts, best to send it to SSS, or Rustystud & have a pro solve the problem.