savage 6br groups

[Josh11]

I went out and shot my new savage f class sunday. I had loaded some Lapua 105s, Lapua cases, and Rem 7.5 primers. I started at 28.5, then shot some at 29 grains, then 29.3. I couldnt even get under a half inch. The 29.3 load was already showing signs of pressure. Cratered primer and some smugging. The case overall length was 2.396. I was not shooting off a mechanical front rest or using a rear bag. Could that have made the groups so bad? ???

 

[NorCalMikie]

Questions. What powder? Has the brass been fireformed to the chamber? Jam or jump on the bullets? Smugging? Where? Case necks or around the primers?
In both of my Savage rifles, I get pressure indications if the bullets arn't jammed into the lands. YMMV.
You might try backing off the loads to 28.0 and work back up at .02 a bump and see what you get.
Might be that you need to get a few rounds down the barrel for it to settle in. And a rest and bag should help.

 

[Josh11]

Sorry about not being clear. Im using H4895. It was the first firing of the brass. They are jammed. Its smugging wherer the Lapua is stamped. Do you think that the lapua bullets are good for savages? It doesnt look like there is very much freebore. I found the lands very easily.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I've never used the Lapua bullets. I stick with the Berger VLD. As far as the H4895, someone that uses it might give you a better idea of what's going on. If you're getting soot around the primer pockets, I'de be checking the brass. Sounds like you might be running a "little on the hot side"??
I'de back off the charge and work back up slow.

 

[memilanuk]

Highly suggest you get some Varget and/or RE-15. Some people use H4895 with good results; most of the rest of the known world uses Varget or RE-15. Just a touch slower which helps out a bit with the heavy-for-caliber bullets you're trying to use.

The case overall length was 2.396.

And that is relative to... what? Some random number you plucked out of thin air, or is it some known distance off of or into the lands of the rifling?

I was not shooting off a mechanical front rest or using a rear bag. Could that have made the groups so bad? ???

Yes. I'm of the opinion you did pretty well considering. What were you thinking? Spend all that money on a gun with a stock designed to ride in a front rest and rear bag, and then don't use either and wonder why your groups aren't all you hoped for?!?

 

[Jeffsavage]

Josh, I have a savage target action with a douglas barrel, and use H-4895. My rifle shoots very well with a Berger VLD jambed, using 28.0 grains of H-4895. If I go to 28.5 grains I start seeing flattened primers.

 

[afy]

Last Wednesday, Savage 10, 26 inch 1:8 LW barrel, OAL 2.320..jammed into the rifling, no brass prep.
Lapua Brass, Lapua 105 Scenar, 30.3 grains of N-150 CCI BR4 primers:

I havent been able to reshoot the group, judt have too much stuff going on.

 

[dantiff2]

Lets concentrate on the primers. The load does not sound hot at all but not all guns are the same in that aspect. I can tell you that I had Rem primers blow at 29.5 gr of varget and group was horrible. With cci 450's, they showed no pressure signs and group went under 1/4 moa with 30-30.3 gr of varget. Velocity right at 2800 fps

 

[jo191145]

Josh

Your well over book data for H-4895. Never wise to take a new factory barrel and try to push it that hard. Forget the data you might see that some competitors are using. You need to start low and work up.
I believe in breaking in factory tubes. Many don't. I've seen enough Savage tubes that copper pretty bad at first. Pushing that hard right out of the box with new brass can be dangerous.

Theres no doubt we push the 6BR past book data. Not wise to start there.

Slow down get a rest and bag and some good copper remover and be safe.

 

[sdneil]

Josh----------Neil in St. louis, Milanuk and Jo191145 have given you some excelent advice, get a good front rest,a good rear bag, some RL 15,and some CCI 450s,and slow down! You will only be dissapointed if you dont do it right! I sent you back a PM yesterday after you contacted me. Neil

 

[Steve Blair]

My 12F has a pretty tight chamber with a .272 neck. I broke-in the barrel with a load of 26 grains H4895, Sierra 107 MK and Win 6½-116 primer seated 2.320 (-.065). This mild load showed slight pressure indications. When I measured the fired case necks the ID was .2425-.2430. I turned the necks to .013 wall and have seen no problems since. It is likely that Savage chambers vary a little so it is worth checking.

BTW, I have found the Wolf KVB-5.56M produces the best results in my rifle.

 

[Josh11]

I spent all most of my money on the gun, scope, dies, ect. I just havent ordered the rest and rear bag yet. I plan on it. I also have another question. The neck die i got, is a Foster. And when i seet the bullet, it scrapes the bullet. Should I have Foster open up the die a little? And what should I go to? I know it needs letting out but dont know how much. And another question, should i switch to Fed 205 primers or just stay with Rem7.5? Or all together change to CCI 450?

 

[janderson0]

I looked up the weather for Sunday in Quincy IL and see you had wind up to 10mph and highest gust was 18 mph.

If I was shooting sans rest, bag and flags (I'll assume your case) I would not expect to get 1/2 inch groups.

Jim

 

[Josh11]

Yeah its suppose to get real bad the next couple of days. Storms and such. Plus got to finish the duck blind before Sat. Ill wait to see how it goes.

 

[762willdo]

Josh in regards to the die, take it apart get the seating cup and a little valve lapping compound (the very fine stuff) and chuck a bullet in a drill and put the compound on the bullet the bullet in the cup and polish the inside of the cup, i have done it to a lot of my dies and the markings you see will go away!
Free advice worth exactly what you pay for it.

 

[jo191145]

I spent all most of my money on the gun, scope, dies, ect. I just havent ordered the rest and rear bag yet. I plan on it. I also have another question. The neck die i got, is a Foster. And when i seet the bullet, it scrapes the bullet. Should I have Foster open up the die a little? And what should I go to? I know it needs letting out but dont know how much. And another question, should i switch to Fed 205 primers or just stay with Rem7.5? Or all together change to CCI 450?

Judging by your desctiption I would quess the scraping is the jacket material. Lapua brass is chamfered from the factory so that should not be the total problem. An 11 degree chamfer tool should be on your wish list though. Assuming your Forster neck die is not a bushing type? You did'nt by chance remove the expander ball from a standard die did you? Probably not possible as forster would'nt offer a decapping pin retainer with a standard die.
My opinion on dies. I'm sure many will adamently disagree. Put that Forster back in the box and buy a Redding S type bushing die Full Length sizer. Or even a Forster FL bushing if they have one.
That will allow you to get rid of the expander ball and adjust your neck tension with different size bushings.
You'll need to FL size sometime anyway. I do it every firing now. My groups in several guns have actually improved since I put my necksizers away.
A tin of Imperial sizing wax as lube. None needed inside the case mouth as theres no expander ball.

More money. You'll need a Hornady headspace quage to set up a FL die PROPERLY. I use the .30 cal comparator insert on 6BR. Loaned my headspace quage out and its still out
Shoulders should be bumped back .001-.002. not more. Forget about the generic die instructions.

If you really want to save the Forster send it back with a few pieces of fired/unsized brass and they can hone it out to your specs.

CCI-450's are generally recommended in the 6BR for heavy bullets. Some folks like the mild Wolf Magnums. Fed205's Match can work but will not handle high pressure as well. I've used them without problems tho.
These days buy whatever you can find whenever you can find them. Then use whatever your load likes best.

H-4895 is a touch fast for the heavies in 6BR. Works very well for me but pressures increase rapidly(spikey)
Never tried the Scenars myself. Supposedly they're a smidge smaller in diameter than U.S. bullets and work well in tighter bore barrels. No idea how tight your factory tube is but maybe they're a good choice to start with. Might help keep pressures down till you get it all figured out.

 

[Josh11]

thanks guys for all the info. Im glad i found this site. I wouldnt even have a 6br if i hadnt.