Savage 243 issue

[matthewusmc8791]

Long time reader and always come here first when i have a question about something, so I’m hoping you guys will be able to help me with my problem.
Rifle Description - Brand new build, Savage action (.243), action trued and chambered Brux in a .275nk and .88FB with OEM DBM in a OEM Varmint laminate stock.
What I’m finding to be a HUGE problem is, feeding issues from the DBM and single feed by laying loaded round in chamber and moving bolt forward and trying to close bolt without huge amounts of pressure.. The DBM system may have issue. The magazine can be pushed upwards about a 1/16" or so but the rear of the mag is solid.

Side note::
Warm weather hit this weekend so that had me motivated to get some prep work going and figured I could finally get to shoot my new rifle and work towards some load development, so i did the following..
Brand new Lapua brass from the bag, I lubed each case and ran through a RCBS neck die with the expander ball to square up case mouth. Then I trimmed to length (2.035") and chamfered in and outside of case mouth. Then primed and dropped powder and bullets. My load I’d like to try is H4831sc and 105gr Berger Hybrids. Touching lands at 2.2655" and I choose to start seating depth at 2.2500". These 3 rounds seemed to chamber ok, but after checking other cases brand new in bag some were harder to chamber and the fired cases were hard to chamber.
I figured since these cases are not going to be pushed hard because I am coating the bullets with HBN and the barrel and I am definitely loading light to keep pressure down so i can get the most out of barrel life as possible...
After firing 3 rounds just to inspect brass afterwards and spec, etc.
I took the fired brass and wiped the necks clean then i measured them and they grew a few .001"
As fyi the fired cases measured what the print was, a .275 neck OD.
I also didn't think I’d need to FL size each and every time i fire these 243 cases like i have to do when i shoot my 300 win mag.
Tried to insert fired cases in the chamber and they still are a pain to close. You actually have to push the rear of the bolt body forward (1/16” +) with your thumb and then hold it and push bolt handle down. Then it closes.
So I thought since the chamber is a match chamber and somewhat tight, maybe I should run them through a Redding body die and then a Redding Neck sizer with a bushing .273 then trimmed them back to length of 2.035" then chamfered.
That’s what I did and I still have to push the rear of the bolt body forward (1/16” +) with your thumb and then hold it and push bolt handle down. Then it closes.
I do have Go and No-Go gauges and they correct. Go gauge is a go and the no go is a no go.
So whats your thoughts fellas’???

Thanks in advance for all your help.. very much appreciated.

 

[treeman]

sounds like you need to trim your cases a little shorter as 2.035" is max case length for 243 win. you may also need to push your shoulders back a couple of thousandths. Get your self a hornady headspace gauge formerly made by stoney point so you can measure headspace of fired and sized brass so you will know your chamber length and how far you are pushing shoulders back. in my experience you will get better long term accuracy if you fl-size every time. if you wait untill brass chambers hard by neck sizeing before you push shoulders back you may run into problems there. as for the magazine problem unless you are resting the weight of the rifle on the magazine I doubt if it has any thing to do with the problem. if the magazine is part of the problem you will be able to see where the bolt is hitting it. good luck and let us know how it goes.
Darrell

 

[Mooster1223]

Max length is listed as 2.045". A common trim to length is 2.035". If the op was having issues chambering factory unfired LAPUA brass, I highly doubt that the issue at hand is a trim issue. It sounds more like a mechanical bolt issue. If the round will chamber when pressure is applied to the bolt in a direct line to the muzzle bore and the handle drops freely, I doubt that a case is going to be the cause. JMHO

 

[seanhagerty]

Also check to make sure your scope base screws or your front action screw arent to long and hindering the bolt from closing all the way.

 

[matthewusmc8791]

Well I ran a brand new peice of brass through reddign body die and neck die with .273 bushing and it measured 2.036" and had issue... So trimmed a piece of brass .010" each time and tried to chamber.. Went down to 2.0000" and still have same issue... So brass is not issue.

here is a pic of how much further i need to push rear of bolt forward so lugs clear and handle drops.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/matthewusmc8791/model12boltgap_zps67d0aafc.jpg

 

[jonbearman]

One possiblity is the extractor is not moving enough out of the way to let the cartridge snap over the top and into the bolt face.I would remove the extractor and measure the detent ball,it should be approx .122.It is a known trick to install a larger ball bearing(detent ball) in place of the smaller one to improve extraction and a stronger spring sometimes.This may have been done by your smith. Also check that you can depress the ejector rod easily with your thumb or try a small punch and push down.If it is a bear to do then order the correct parts(stock) from brownells.Sometimes stronger springs and such cause problems that werent there to begin with.You could just remove the extractor and the ejector to see if without them it cycle's smoothly.Remember there are springs and you should wrap a small hand towel around your work so as to not lose parts.Look for marks on the outside of the bolt locking lugs to make sure that a screw isnt impeding bolt movement.Pm me for more advice.Do you have a go and no go gage as some people tend to overtighten the barrel and make less than optimum headspace.

 

[treeman]

Matthew,sorry for the miss information on case length. I was going off the #s for 7-08 I am curious to find out what was causing the problem . try holding the trigger back with no round in the chamber and see if it is still hard to close. I have several savages and I never ran into this same problem with factory or after market triggers. what a puzzler!

 

[matthewusmc8791]

Hello all.. What i've done today was take the bolt out and removed the ejector.. I tried it with new untouched brass and sized brass with the ejector in and out and there was a slight difference from difference but but very barely noticeable... So im thinking that it is a head space issue even though when i check it with go and no-go gauges it within those specs. BUT those tolerances might not be within the headspace on this chamber and a few tho' too tight?????

Anymore thoughts fellas??? This sucks....

 

[treeman]

are you saying that a go gauge goes and a no go doesn't go? if that is what you are say ing take a sized case and mark it with a sharpie or majic marker from the shoulder to the extractor groove then chamber it and see if it is rubbed off in som places. we'll figure out what the problem is.
Darrell
p.s. when you chamber a round is it hard to extract?

 

[matthewusmc8791]

Hello, took your advice and marked up an entire case and carefully chambered it and ejected it carefully and there were no marks yes gauges worked correctly...

anywhere on the case.

When i eject the case it does take quit a bit of effort to raise bolt handle..

 

[bglenn]

Lets see if you have a case/chamber problem! Take the bolt out of your rifle and with your finger see if the cases will slip in the chamber with about 1/8" sticking out of the barrel. If the first one goes in easy, try 3 or 4 more. You should be able to slide a case into the chamber easily if the case is new or sized properly. After doing this we will know if it is a chamber fit problem or not.

 

[tunered]

Does the bolt react the same way with no case in the chamber, dry fire and see if the bolt is still hard to raise, im betting on timing of the bolt, Factory or aftermarket bolt???

 

[seanhagerty]

If you havent checked scope mount screws and action screws for protrusion into the bolt, you need to do this. Back them all out and see what happens.

Sean

 

[treeman]

if any action bolts or base screws are rubbing on the bolt there will be marks on the bolt. I'm thinking that what tunered is saying my be the problem which is a problem that I've experienced with savage actions in the past. you can solve it two different ways but I prefer to bevel the locking lugs. if you get the extra clearence off the bolt handle you loose primary extraction

 

[matthewusmc8791]

I checked this morning: it takes same amount of pressure to raise bolt handle after fired when empty or with a case in chamber. the bolt is OEM savage and bolt head was trued up. Nothing else done to body tha tim aware of. Even tried a bolt lift kit with a single bearing and then i tried with a thruster bearing setup and no difference.

I also checked to see if base screws were protrudign adn to the best i could see i didn't see or feel anything sticking through.

 

[Laurie]

If you're not seeing any 'witness marks' on the case body caused by a tight case fit, and there are no extractor / ejector sticking issues, there can only be three causes left I reckon if it's case to chamber fit issue:

1. the chamber is over-short in the neck section making it too short overall. FL size an old 243 case, see how it chambers and if still tight, sacrifice it by trimming to well below the trim-to value. If that solves your problem, you know where the problem lies and you need a chamber length gauge from Sinclair to measure exactly what your chamber dimensions are. A quick test here though is to take your previously fired brass from the rifle and see if you can push a bullet into the neck of unsized cases. If it's tight, that may not mean anything other than a low load that hasn't caused full neck-expansion or as a result of running a tight-neck chamber, BUT .... is a loose slide-through the neck fit, you almost certainly do not have a neck fit problem. If you're forcing an over-length (for that chamber) case into the throat, it will never expand fully. It is also likely to give high-pressure signs with mild/standard loads if serious enough.

2. headspace as you're thinking, but that sounds unlikely given the chamber gauges chambering OK.

3. the reamer is a bit undersize in the body section, most likely at the rear giving a marginal interference case to chamber fit. This is an issue in 6BR Norma where a 6BR Remington reamer is used and Lapua brass loaded. The symptoms are identical to those you describe. You should see witness marks on the case-body though most likely just ahead of the web where it's been tight in the chamber.

If it's a rifle action issue, you mention having to push the bolt forward / hold it there before turning the handle down. With Savages having a pinned-on floating bolt, there is a flat washer type spring installed between the front of the outer section of the bolt body and the rear of the bolt-head. Out of the box factory Savage actions display the characteristic you describe, but not to such a degree that it causes problems. I wonder is there is inadequate clearance with your having an aftermarket bolt-head resulting in a crush fit of the body / spring / bolt-head. Strip the bolt, remove the spring and see if that improves things.

In any event good luck - it seems an intractable problem, but when you get to the bottom of it, you'll likely kick yourself for missing something obvious!

 

[LRPV]

Is it possible that the bolt head is making contact with the barrel shank?

 

[matthewusmc8791]

Thanks for all the input, all the comments adn suggestions are much appreciated...

I've taken a piece of brass, sized it, and trimmed it down every .010" down to 2.000" and it still has the same heavy bolt lift and you still need to push the bolt forward to close.

 

[hammerjack]

You could try running them thru a FL die only and make sure your press is caming over kind of hard at bottom of stroke. If this does not work you can remove your decaping pin from your die and and take a filler guage about .005 to start with and slide under base of case when resizeing and see if it gets better.I would check what LRPV said also. You could try a different FL die may help. Was this the first chamber cut with this reamer? When you installed the lift kit did you remove any metal off of the big screw or cocking sleeve so it has the same amount of room to work with new parts.

 

[matthewusmc8791]

I am running them through a redding body die and then a redding bushing dies with a .273 neck.

If i cam over on the press wouldn't i be bumping the should back further and further back..

I have a problem chamber brand new brass that is almost always under sized so why doesn that fit either? the length is't an issue either.. I'd trimmed a piece to min and still issue.