running out of horizontal adjustment on NF br, warne rings, extended 20ma base

[rsolomon25]

I am running out of horizontal adjustment, equipment. Savage F class 6.5-284, NS 12x42 BR, savage 20moa extended tactical base, Warne tactical high rings. All torqued in correctly. Hitting 5 foot to left at 100yrds. Went ahead and remounted the base and rings with same result.
Questions. 1. Should I dump the savage base and go Warne 20moa tactical base or NS base? 2. Or go NS all the way? 3. Machine the Warne Rings? 4. Go Warne mount
The other concern I have is that might I have a lemon rifle with the mounting holes drilled off center?
Any and all help is welcomed.
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[mr45man]

I have never seen rings that far out of wack, it almost has to be the base.
John H.

Logic dictates that. However, it is possible the base holes are aligned properly with action axis and you still have a hardware problem. We had a Savage 6BR that had the threads for the barrel tenon both off-axis and cut oversize. As a result the barrel pointed down (off-axis), and hung down (sloppy thread fit).

As the result of our "hang-down barrel" we used up nearly all a NF NXS's vertical adjustment just getting centered at 100 yards. I'd never seen anything like it before with a centerfire gun.

Suggestion: I would try to bore sight very carefully at 50 yards (make sure your target center is right smack dab in the middle of the bore). Center up the scope in its travel. If you are off by a couple of feet from where the cross-hair shows, I'd send the entire barreled action back to Savage.

I'd say there's maybe a 10-20% chance your action is FUBAR inside.

 

[rsolomon25]

John, that is exactly what I was leaning towards as well. Just hard to believe their tolerances are that far off.

 

[Steve Blair]

Take the base off the action and check the tapped hole locations in the action. Do the locations form a parallel line to the action axis? Do the screws bind when tightening the scope base? If both those check Ok, have a gunsmith check the parallelism of the action barrel threads to the action bore. [br]
You are describing a nearly 1° deviation. You could almost eyeball that much angularity.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have an old Savage 110 that I had to install .020 offset inserts in sideways opposite each other to get back to center, in Burris Signature Zee rings. I believe that they make similar rings for scopes with 30mm tubes. The kicker is that while they work on Weaver spec bases, they are too small for Picatinny bases, the problem being that the clamp is not by a loose piece.

 

[hogan]

Might want to try setting up your scope again using a boresighting collimator. The Bushnell 74-3333 is a great diagnostics tool.

Sounds more likely that you have a bent tube or defective erector or turret.

Have you tried another scope you are certain of in the same mount? Do that and see if your still getting same results.


Are you sure your ammunition is correct? To be 5 foot off at 100yds is amazing! Not shooting .260rem in a 7mm-08, are ya? Have you tried sighting in at 25yds? Are you shooting at a 10' wide target so you know you're actually 5' to right? Is the barrel screwed in halfway tight or was the barrel ever bent or run-over?

 

[BoydAllen]

A little added info:
On my rifle, the situation has been consistent through several scopes, including one that was taken out of the box, checked for reticle centering on V blocks, and then mounted. For rifles that exhibit this characteristic, I believe that rings with offset inserts may be the best answer. As far as I can see, they have no disadvantages.

 

[Sully2]

A little added info:
On my rifle, the situation has been consistent through several scopes, including one that was taken out of the box, checked for reticle centering on V blocks, and then mounted. For rifles that exhibit this characteristic, I believe that rings with offset inserts may be the best answer. As far as I can see, they have no disadvantages.

EXCEPT....they dont CURE the problem ( whatever it might be??) they are just a work around is all.

 

[M-61]

I once sold a perfectly good Sako in .220 Swift because it could not group 3 shots. Two no sweat...third one gone somewhere.
Problem was the Scope. It's an old story but I learned my lesson. After all the basics (torquing etc) I'd install another scope. Any one you get your hands on for an hour. See what it does.

 

[timeout]

Regarding the Signature Zee rings from Burris, I had this response this week by email: Our signature zee rings will fit a picatinny rail and a weaver style rail

I have no hands on experience to verify that as no one has the Sig. Zees in Medium for 30mm's in stock currently. I do not dispute in any way Boyd's experience with them, just passing on what a Burris Representative stated.

 

[ShaneG.]

I got 4 Savage actions. 1 LA and 3Sa, two are the older flat back and both of them require shims under the rear base of about .025" to get the 2 piece bases in the same plane. Never noticed them being off that far on hole alignment for horizontal,but I have seen quite a few people posting of that problem. I'd try another scope for a double check then check the screws hole in the action. I use the rear windage adjustable rear base. The other two have one piece 20moa bases.

I would almost bet that's what it is. You can either work around it as stated with the inserts in rings or send it back to Savage and have them fix or place the action.

 

[BoydAllen]

My comment about base compatibility was based on the experience of trying the rings on two different bases of that specification. As to the workaround comment, I try to keep my eye on the goal, rather than the process. The results that I achieved did not involve any compromise of function. The scope was centered very closely, both for windage and elevation before the turrets were touched. I doubt that most installations of conventional rings, whether lapped, bedded, or just pronounced "good enough" as is, come as close. Do I wish that everything lined up without having to resort to this "trickery"? Of course I do, but as a good friend often says."It is what it is." This particular action gives every indication of great accidental accuracy, so I am content to take what it give me, excellent performance, the only place that it really matters....on the target. Everything else is just window dressing.

 

[robhinze]

I was with Rex last night shooting the new rifle, it was ugly. The guess on the 5 foot left hits were mine, we could hit the box once we swung the rifle about 5 foot to the right. I will bring another scope with the same ring setup and see if the action is parallel with the base. I just have never seen anything that far off! Thanks for all the good info so far, can not wait to try several of the suggestions asap. Both Rex and I will follow up with what we find.

 

[robhinze]

@Hogan, lol those thoughts did occur. Sadly none of those things were in play.

 

[ShaneG.]

Boyd,
My comment about working around it wasn't meant to imply it was the wrong way to fix the problem,sorry if it sounded that way. I'm doing the same thing with the windage rear bases. And like you said what matters is what shows up on paper. Some people don't like the thought of getting something new and doing something like that,it would just bug the heck out of them.

 

[dennisinaz]

I have to use 20 MOA inserts in sideways to get my 22-250 Savage on target. It is scary accurate once on. It will literally shoot about any bullet into 3/8 MOA. The Burris zee rings will fit a picatinny base. I don't like the small cross bolts in them but they work good until you break that bolt. I then replace them with a bigger one.

If your holes are off, you might be able to punch them out with an end mill so that they all line up and retap them 8-40.

 

[rsolomon25]

Pulled off base and put screws back in. Ran straight-edge down barrel. Looks OK. Ordered Nightforce 20 MOA base. One correction on original post is that the base was an EGW 41032 3" Ext SA 20 MOA. This is an aluminum base. Nightforce is steel and not extended length. Should be here Tuesday. Will report back.

 

[longbow]

The Burris " Pro Align Offset Rings" is a quick fix and very stable as "BoydAllen" commented. Do alittle research on these, have used them for years with no problems.Pete