Rimmed cartridges in a bolt action...

[257Roberts]

Never really thought about this that much. The only one I ever owned was a Mosin Nagant in 7.62x54R and always shot surplus ammo, so never really dove into the subject much. That gun is long since gone, but considering another vintage bolt action rifle chambered in a rimmed cartridge.

I assume then, for ultimate accuracy, that the case should headspace off the shoulder, and not the rim, for a bolt action gun?

Do folks go about this any differently than a tradional bolt action rimless cartridge?

 

[XTR]

How much pressure are you running? I have a falling block 30-40 that I only neck size because the cases still fit in the rifle after firing. I learned that from my BPCR shooting, don't size 45-70 cases either.

If it's not a high pressure load you might not need to size at all. I'd certainly check, otherwise I'd set it up like any other bottle necked case and bump the shoulder 1-2 thou.

 

[Laurie]

.303 Enfields give interesting insights into this issue. Their chambers are invariably longer than needed giving what would be seriously excess headspace with a rimless cartridge. This was deliberate to allow off-spec / dirty / damaged ammo to chamber OK in a military rifle. The few examples I've seen of 'match' SMLEs and similar suggest that standard military chambers were used in this role too.

As well as being over-long, many of these chambers were badly oversized in the upper body / shoulder area so that fired cases look 'improved'. A BSA match SMLE I owned many decades ago had such a slack chamber that neck-sizing wouldn't work as the reloaded case jammed in the seater die cavity before entering fully. I imagine gunsmiths put a lot of effort into getting minimum tolerance headspace (on the rim) correct though.

The 303 is widely handloaded in the UK for historic target shooting and most military rifles shoot very well with conventional full-length sizing. This is what British prone NRA shooters used for nigh on 70 years in fettled Lee-Enfields over three generations of rifle design from Long Lee to the Number 4. That is (short-case shoulder dimensioned) arsenal cartridges in slack chambers fired at up to 1,000 yards (occasionally longer distances).

We are talking surplus military rifle precision though! (IIRC the pre-1968 GB NRA prone 'Service Rifle' target used a 3-MOA 'Bull'-ring.) Nowadays, some 303 shooters neck-size their cases, others watch shoulder position carefully to minimise clearances. This is primarily done to maximise case-life not as an adjunct to improving scores. Brass can have a very short life in these rifles with a full-pressure (~45,000 psi) load and a lot of expansion / brass working allied to the relatively weak 'springy' Lee action with its asymmetrically positioned rear locking lugs.

 

[AWS]

Any number of bolt action rifles were chambered, Savage 340's and all their derivatives, Krag's, Winchester 43's just off the top of my head. There were mausers also. the design of the mag is pretty much a determining factor, you need to be able to load it without getting the rims overlapping the wrong way.

 

[257Roberts]

I have a small affection for the 25-20 WCF cartridge, more from a nostalgia standpoint and have been looking for a Winchester 43 in said chambering. Then it dawned on me, that maybe I should be more concerned with shoulder bump than FL sizing in a bolt action rifle of rimmed cartridge chambering. I guess I am more concerned about accuracy than brass life, but these little boogers aren't exactly easy to find either.

Other rimmed cartridges I've long considered in a bolt action are the 218 Bee and the 219 Wasp. I know the Wasp is well known for being the "accuracy king" for many of the early years, and just curious how those precision bench guys were handling their rimmed bolt gun reloading...

 

[1911nut]

I have a small affection for the 25-20 WCF cartridge, more from a nostalgia standpoint and have been looking for a Winchester 43 in said chambering. Then it dawned on me, that maybe I should be more concerned with shoulder bump than FL sizing in a bolt action rifle of rimmed cartridge chambering. I guess I am more concerned about accuracy than brass life, but these little boogers aren't exactly easy to find either.

Other rimmed cartridges I've long considered in a bolt action are the 218 Bee and the 219 Wasp. I know the Wasp is well known for being the "accuracy king" for many of the early years, and just curious how those precision bench guys were handling their rimmed bolt gun reloading...

I have a 1960’s Taylor and Robbins unlimited bag gun, Mauser action, 25 lbs, in 219 Wasp. The brass I’m shooting is 219 Zipper, 30-30 and 30 American. The rims are turned to .473”. I’m bumping the shoulders .002”
I imagine the old timey bench guns had their bolts modified to handle rimmed cartridges.

yep, the wasp was the Accuracy King
Here’s what the Wasp does at 100 yds

 

[WSnyder]

On the BR side of things. Michael Turners self built BR action with magnum bolt face for his 30-30

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[GaryL1959]

Several years back, before the 450 Marlin came out, I had the wild notion to build a 444 Marlin on a 98 Mauser action. Used a 26 inch, 16 twist Montana barrel, and a "magnum" face bolt. Had to tweak the extractor a bit, and the feed rails quite a bit to get it feed properly. It was a pain to get right, but it worked pretty slick as long as the rims were stacked properly in the mag. Shot everything from 180 grain XTP's to 325 grain hard cast decently, with the best groups, 1 inch average for 3, with 300 grain XTP's and IMR3031. Shot a bunch of stuff with it, from groundhogs to black bear. Dang thing would sling a 180 XTP at dang near 3000fps with a case full of AA1680, and would vaporize a crow, lol.
Wound up cutting it back to 21 inches, and re- clambering it to take a blown out and trimmed 30-06 case, getting rid of the rim issue. Headspaced on the case mouth like a 9mm...
Rimmed cartridges will work in a bolt gun, but like said above, the rims require attention when loading the mag.

 

[TrapperBR549]

I acquired a Winchester 43 last year in 22 Hornet. I have been piddling with it some and the rims haven't been an issue. I just bump the shoulders .002". It feeds reliably from the magazine but I was surprised that the magazine only holds 3 rounds.