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Right Whidden pointing insert for Berger Hybrids

Which is the right Whidden pointing insert for Berger 200 and 215 hybrid?
Some charts say #0 (what I own) others #1.

Using #0 seems a little bit overpointed
 
I use the #0 insert for all my .30 cal bullets (168 Hybrids, 185 Jugs, 185 Hybrids). Whidden's current pointing die insert chart lists #0 for the 200 Hybrids and #1 for the 215s. However, either one should work just fine. You're primarily trying to close up the meplat slightly, not completely close it off. So to a large extent you can adjust how much pointing you get with either insert using the micrometer. I try to set the mic about 2-3 thousandths less than where you just start to detect the bulge below the point (i.e. overpointed). This results in the meplat being closed up by somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/2 to 2/3 as compared by eye to an unpointed bullet. They are never completely closed off. The real difference between the two inserts will be the angle of the "cone" at the tip that results from the pointing die. If you have both inserts, you could very easily point a couple with each and see if the appearance of one set suits you better than the other. Even though the difference in appearance may be noticeable, I strongly doubt you will be able to reliably document/shoot the difference if the mic has been set correctly for both inserts.
 
Ok, thanks.
The chart on the Whidden web site says #O for a "Berger .308 200gr target" but as I could imagine the right # should be 1 as I get a noticeable coned tip even not completely closing the meplat.
I slightly trim the meplat first using the Montour County Rifle trimmer
 
There is an old #0 and a new. I had one of the originals that didn't work, the current version is just right for the 7mm 180gr. Hybrids.

Lloyd
 
From my observation, the main difference between the #0 and #1 pointing dies is how steep the sides of the cone are; i.e. two cones with the same base diameter, but different height. I have used the #1 die on .308 185s and as you mentioned, the point is noticeably different, longer and less steep. IMO, it wasn't quite right for the 185s; however, it's absolutely perfect for .224 90 VLDs, giving an almost seamless and undetectable point after mostly closing up the tips. Honestly, either one will give you pointed bullets that are much better than bullets straight out of the box; mainly a slight increase in BC and better consistency on the target. I wouldn't agonize too much over which one is the most "correct". Your eye is probably the best judge of which gives the best looking points. I would suggest comparing the two, picking the one you think is best, and moving on.
 
There is an old #0 and a new. I had one of the originals that didn't work, the current version is just right for the 7mm 180gr. Hybrids

Interesting... I've been using the #1 for 180 Hybrids after building a 7mm earlier this year. Works GREAT out at 1,000 yards! I'll try a #0 on a couple left-overs from the first batch, ask JW what might be different on the new vs. old.
 
Marksman63, Those 200g hybrids in picture seem to indicate reaming/uniforming with the hollow points could you share info with what tool was used for process, thanks.
 
Marksman63, Those 200g hybrids in picture seem to indicate reaming/uniforming with the hollow points could you share info with what tool was used for process, thanks.

Paul,
The back two bullets in the photo have been pointed with a pointing die, which partially closes off the meplat and provides a slight increase in BC and better consistency on the target. There are a couple brands that are most commonly used:

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/bullet-pointing-die-system/

http://www.bullettipping.com
 
Marksman63, Those 200g hybrids in picture seem to indicate reaming/uniforming with the hollow points could you share info with what tool was used for process, thanks.

Paul, the op states he is using a Montour County Rifle meplat trimmer. It has a trimmer that will also chamfer the ID of the tip in a hollow point. Nice units, I just bought one last week.
 
Slide1_zpsvpcs16rl.jpg


This is a crude cartoon of how different pointing die inserts will cause the meplats of bullets to look after pointing. I purposely exaggerated the appearance of the pointed bullets. The geometry of the bullet largely dictates which insert is most appropriate; i.e. the caliber, ogive radius, meplat diameter, etc. The insert with the cone of greater height as shown at right will give a longer and less "steep" point, but it will close the meplat less. The insert with the cone of lesser height as shown at left will close the meplat more, but give a noticeably "steeper" point. The relative difference between inserts # 0 and # 1 are shown (also greatly exaggerated).

As an example, the # 0 insert appropriate for a 185 Juggernaut (.308) will give points most similar in appearance to those shown above on the right when used with the 185s, where the point transitions smoothly into the ogive and the meplat will be closed by about 1/2 to 2/3. However, using the #0 point on a .224 90 VLD, which is much thinner and "pointier" than the 185, will give points that have a noticeably more abrupt transition to the ogive, even though the meplat may be closed a little more.

The OPs original question was aimed at how to determine which insert gives the best results with the Berger 200 Hybrids. I do not have the exact specs for the cone dimensions of the various inserts, so I can only go by what I see having tested various bullets with the # 0 and # 1 inserts I have. Visually, I would much prefer to use the insert for a given bullet that closes the meplat by ~1/2-2/3 and gives the smoothest transition to the ogive. Having said that, I can guarantee you that even bullets pointed with an insert that gives a more abrupt transition to the ogive are still much better than unpointed bullets. So there is a fair amount of latitude in which insert gives points that are the most appealing to your eye depending on the specific bullet you're pointing. I generally try to follow Whidden's guidelines, but have experimented a bit with the two inserts I have and occasionally found I like the appearance of the points better when using the insert not recommended for certain bullets. For me it has been mostly trial and error. But as I mentioned above, no matter which insert you use, the results will be an improvement over unpointed bullets. Whether someone could actually shoot the difference between bullets pointed with two different inserts, regardless of how pleasing the appearance of the final products were to the eye, is a question I think would be pretty difficult to answer definitively.
 
The new book Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol 2 has an entire chapter on this. You can see the average improvement for each pointing die, as well as what the real results were for a large number of bullets. It also includes trimming results as well.
 
Yes a bullet here and there missing the most popular , particulary 6.5 and 7mm offerings ,7mm sample is particulary narrow considering how popular the 7mm are with the long range crowd ,a 180 Berger and for some reason 130 Sierra MK who uses bullets that light
 

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