Rifle Stock vs bow limb construction

[wywindsor]

Years ago I shot for Hoyt and a couple of other bow manufactures. Most limbs at that time were built by one company. I think pse and Hoyt built their own. Not for certain. However Hoyt had a process of fiber glass or carbon fiber and foam or there abouts. Hoyt saw the need for hunters in below zero conditions to stay fairly accurate and the same for tournament shooters in 100 degree weather. Now we all know that hard to follow to some degree. But the construction of the limb managed not to break under extreme conditions and managed to stay more stabile from mid 50 to 100 degree weather.

Now some of the stock manufactures have this working for them. The stocks are light compared to bow limbs. Thoughts on heavier stocks. Plus bow have aluminum risers with the limbs to project the arrow. they seem to have reduced the vibration with limb and riser design over the years. What could a chassis use to help it from being like a tuning fork?

 

[R&B]

The limbs on any bow regardless of it being a compound or a long bow serve a different purpose than rifle chassis or stock. Limbs store and release energy in the most efficient way possible when being mechanically bent in a some vertical direction for the most modern compound bow. There isn't much that can be done when it come to vibration when the potential energy is released. That is why almost 20 years ago most all compound manufacturers use some sort of Limb Savor/Limb Damper. Mathews has added a built in limb damping technology in their newer bows (Phase 4 to the 2026 ARC). For damping vibration or sound most manufacturers use strategically placed vibration absorbing dampers in their risers. Mathews has done this for decades. Hoyt also uses similar technology in their newer compound bows.

When hunting with a bow it is important to quiet the bow down as much as possible to keep the animals from jumping the string due the fact arrows fly much slower than the speed of sound.

 

[Intheshop]

Leaving self bows,and Hill style longbows out of the equation;

On a trad bow limb there's a neutral zone in the exact middle of the limb. It's neither compression,or tension. So,you can have a foam core... or any other material.

Riser engineering "ain't" limb engineering. It's just about opposite.

On a trad bow limb.... assuming we're looking for "free" speed... IME,the two worst things material wise,are> walnut and excessive epoxy. Walnut is demonstrably slower than just about any wood I can think of. And too much epoxy between lams is a speed killer. Therefore,on a rifle stock... if you want to "kill" a reaction. Use lots of epoxy and walnut.

Too easy to head off into the weeds (for me) on this subject... however,limb profile and taper/s can and do contribute largely to their performance. Therefore,as to how it relates to the OP, stock shape and tapers are where you should be focusing. Yes material choice is uber important, it is connected to shape. As a bowyer,if I had to point towards where long gun design can benefit the most,or IOW's where it drops the ball is shape/taper and it's effect on recoil mitigation and damping.

Good luck with your quest.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

Years ago I shot for Hoyt and a couple of other bow manufactures. Most limbs at that time were built by one company. I think pse and Hoyt built their own. Not for certain. However Hoyt had a process of fiber glass or carbon fiber and foam or there abouts. Hoyt saw the need for hunters in below zero conditions to stay fairly accurate and the same for tournament shooters in 100 degree weather. Now we all know that hard to follow to some degree. But the construction of the limb managed not to break under extreme conditions and managed to stay more stabile from mid 50 to 100 degree weather.

Now some of the stock manufactures have this working for them. The stocks are light compared to bow limbs. Thoughts on heavier stocks. Plus bow have aluminum risers with the limbs to project the arrow. they seem to have reduced the vibration with limb and riser design over the years. What could a chassis use to help it from being like a tuning fork?

I have often pondered this sort of thing.
I think that performance of many items are far below what they potentially could be.
It's only when you do like Melvin Forbes, and "get your composites guy together with your metallurgy guy" that things get right to the pinnacle of what's possible.

 

[wywindsor]

The limbs on any bow regardless of it being a compound or a long bow serve a different purpose than rifle chassis or stock. Limbs store and release energy in the most efficient way possible when being mechanically bent in a some vertical direction for the most modern compound bow. There isn't much that can be done when it come to vibration when the potential energy is released. That is why almost 20 years ago most all compound manufacturers use some sort of Limb Savor/Limb Damper. Mathews has added a built in limb damping technology in their newer bows (Phase 4 to the 2026 ARC). For damping vibration or sound most manufacturers use strategically placed vibration absorbing dampers in their risers. Mathews has done this for decades. Hoyt also uses similar technology in their newer compound bows.

When hunting with a bow it is important to quiet the bow down as much as possible to keep the animals from jumping the string due the fact arrows fly much slower than the speed of sound.

View attachment 1732084

Steve Sims came up with the rubber compound that made this happen. We also used his products in the bow string. Quieter and faster. That one I still don't believe but it's true. Hoyt added a deflection piece to the riser. This I believe was just a fluke but it tamed the shock of the bow. Certainly over the years of trial and error the new bows are faster and quieter the before. I think the chassis world could learn a thing or two that would help.

 

[std7mag]

My first compound bow was a used Bear, back in the mid 1980s.
Compared to the recurve bow at the time, it was faster.
But it used more of a pulley system than the cams we now use. Letoff wasn't something to write home about.

Fast forward to 1992, and I bought my first new compound bow. A Golden Eagle Hawk Carbine.
It was shorter and faster than the old Bear. But it weighed more. 6lbs vs 4 lbs.

Fast forward again to 2019, and the next new bow. APA Viper Air.
Shorter yet than the Golden Eagle, but only weighs 3lbs. Plus with a 50lb pull weight vs the 70lbs I was pulling, I picked up 15fps.

So, yes. Some serious advancements have been made.

Rifle stocks/chassis I haven't seen the advancements made over the same time period.
Some are lighter. Some have an aluminum structure in them. Some are all aluminum.

In talking with Melvin Forbes, his belief was to use a heavier barrel, and save weight in the action and stock.
He had told me that if you're thinking about full length bedding, the stock has to be exceptionally stiff.

 

[wywindsor]

the stock has to be exceptionally stiff.

With a carbon fiber or aluminum tube in the barrel channel?

 

[wywindsor]

I believe Yamaha built their first aluminum YZ chassis with billet, pultruded and cast aluminum. Each for the frame to work like they wanted.