Removing expander from Hornady pistol dies

[Adam in WI]

Anyone tried removing the expander from Hornady pistol dies? I'd like to polish mine down to get more bullet pull but it looks almost like it's pressed in. Can it be kinetically removed like a bullet from a case or do I have to drill the top and press it out?

 

[Uncle Ed]

The Hornady expander is not removable and is swaged inside the die.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I would recommend the Lyman type "M" expander for straight inline seating.

The type "M" expander creates a step inside the case mouth that allows the bullet to be started by hand. And with jacketed bullets, the case only needs to be bumped onto section "B" to expand the case mouth .001 larger than the bullet diameter. This prevents the bullet from tilting during seating and makes more concentric ammo.

 

[noylj]

You know, none of my M-dies give me any better expanding/seating than a normal set of dies—plus, the expander can work loose (use LokTite on the threads). They don't seat square like that. If they work for you, great.
You DON'T get more bullet tension with a smaller case ID. Try it. After seating, pull the bullet. you'll find almost ALWAYS that the case ID after seating, no matter what it was before seating, is now 0.002-0.001" under bullet diameter and, in some cases, the bullet has been swaged down in diameter while it expanded the case. So, if after case expansion the case ID is 0.002-0.001" under bullet diameter, that's as good as you are going to get and you have almost no chance of damaging the bullet.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The patent ran out on the Lyman type "M" expanders and now Redding uses the same type expander in their dies.

If this type expander didn't work well then why did Redding change their design. The case mouth does not need to be flared like a standard expander. And the second step of the expander opens the case mouth approximately .001 larger than bullet diameter. This allows the bullet to start straight into the case with just your fingers. This allows the seater plug to push straight down on the bullet without any bullet tilting.

The unique design of the special expander performs four distinct functions. The smooth entry radius is followed by the correct expanding diameter for proper press fit of the bullets. The upper section of the expanding diameter has a concentric ring which opens the case mouth slightly larger than bullet diameter to enhance bullet alignment. The final taper can provide a “bellmouth” on the case mouth when desired, usually when using lead bullets. with jacketed bullets

Below is a Lyman type "M" expander for a .223, it gives you .003 bullet grip. And by bumping the case mouth onto the .226 section the case mouth will be .001 larger than bullet diameter after brass spring back. If you are loading cast bullets you push the case further up the .226 section until the case mouth is flared. The advantage to this type expander is the case mouth is not over worked and greatly reduces bullet runout.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I started making my own three step expanders for my straight wall rifle and pistol cases a long time ago. at the time nothing was available in the sizes I wanted for my cast bullets, I soon discovered that jacketed bullets were easy to seat straighter as well. The "M" step lets any flat base bullet seat straighter, at least at my house. The straight wall cases with cast get roll crimps, the bottleneck cases get a kiss of taper crimp on jacketed bullets. I am not using cast for my bottleneck calibers.

O.P. what are you shooting that you want more bullet pull? If cast, you might want to be careful that you don't swage your bullets smaller during the seating process. Size is very important with cast, then comes alloy.

Previous post is correct, you only stretch brass so much before you exceed elastic limits.

 

[edwardware]

Anyone tried removing the expander from Hornady pistol dies?

The Hornady expander is not removable and is swaged inside the die.

I concur with what the OP must be thinking, "Who thought that was a good idea?"

I would suggest drilling from the top and punching it out; you probably don't have the equipment to pull it kinetically. You should be prepared to add a set screw to the side for positive retention.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I think that the hot setup would be to get a different expander die.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Anyone tried removing the expander from Hornady pistol dies? I'd like to polish mine down to get more bullet pull but it looks almost like it's pressed in. Can it be kinetically removed like a bullet from a case or do I have to drill the top and press it out?

I would not bother trying to remove the expander from your Hornady expander die, you will just end up with a worthless damaged die.

Lee makes an undersize die that sizes the case .002 to .003 smaller in diameter for more bullet grip. Many competitive use the undersize die because they are using range pickup brass. These cases have been reloaded many times and have become work-hardened and the brass springs back more after sizing.

Below is a 9mm cartridge that was sized with a Lee undersize die. The case is wasp waisted and has plenty of bullet grip.

I have a Hornady 9mm pistol die set, and I used it once and put it back in its box and never used it again. The fixed non-removable expander bother me, and the titanium nitride sizing die scratched the cases. I bought a Lee carbide die set and a Lyman type "M" expander that works much better.

NOTE, two things pistol shooters never do.
1. Trim their cases.
2. Anneal their pistol brass.

So eventually the case will become work hardened and need to be sized smaller in diameter.

 

[Adam in WI]

two things pistol shooters never do.
1. Trim their cases.
2. Anneal their pistol brass.

I gather you don't roll crimp anything then. I trim all mine

 

[Uncle Ed]

I gather you don't roll crimp anything then. I trim all mine

I taper crimp my 9mm & 40 S&W pistol brass and normally the cases just get shorter and do not get trimmed.

I trim my revolver cases and roll crimp them, "BUT" with plated bullets and lite practice loads the cases are taper crimped.

I never anneal any handgun cases because it burns my fingers.

And the Lee factory crimp die with a carbide ring in its base is a cheat for reloaders who do not trim their cases. The carbide ring will size the bulge below the crimp on the longer cases that were not trimmed to length.

 

[Bill K]

Never have had a issue with the expander on any pistol reloading. Just adjust the die to where the expander flares the case mouth, just a slight amount, so the bullet upon seating does not scrape the mouth and shave any portion of the bullet. I have loaded thousands of various pistol/revolver rounds in the past 60 yrs or so. And this has been with a couple of brands of reloading dies.
So why would you want to remove the expander, just adjust your dies properly.

 

[Adam in WI]

So why would you want to remove the expander, just adjust your dies properly.

I want to reduce the diameter of the straight section of expander below the flare to increase neck tension. I'm not asking how to reload pistol ammo. Simply wanting to know if anyone has been able to modify the Hornady die. There's plenty of accounts suggesting that increasing neck tension in this fashion is a good way to burn slow powders like 2400 and 110/296 more efficiently.

 

[divingin]

I would recommend the Lyman type "M" expander for straight inline seating.

Second that.

NOE Bullet Molds has M die expanders in various semi-custom configs. Though for pistol you may not need them.

 

[Adam in WI]

My newest Hornady set is for 357 Magnum, and to it's credit it is very easy to seat bullets straight which makes me wonder if they changed something. My ~20 year old set for 44 Magnum isn't as easy to get them straight.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

My newest Hornady set is for 357 Magnum, and to it's credit it is very easy to seat bullets straight which makes me wonder if they changed something. My ~20 year old set for 44 Magnum isn't as easy to get them straight.

Hard to tell from the cutaway picture above, but it kind of looks to have a "M" step on the expander. Best to just look for a used expander die for cheap that you can polish down to your liking.

 

[Adam in WI]

I figure if I'm going to potentially end up buying a new expander to do what I want I may as well go ahead and try modifying this one to serve the purpose. It shouldn't be hard to chuck it in the lathe and drill a hole in the end to press the mandrel out.