Reloading dies

[spudgun]

I have been reloading my 6.5 CM brass for 4 years now using a Hornady 2 piece die. My gun is on its 3 rd barrel and have had no issues with the brass.

Yesterday I bought a used Savage 12 that I want to use for Factory gun at 600 yds IBS.

Today I took it to the range and brought along some 6.5 reloads.

When I tried to chamber a round it was very difficult to get the bolt handle down. When I did get it chambered and fired the handle would rise but I could not get the bolt to slide backward.

A piece of wood helped me tap the bolt back and extract the brass.

I thought I would try another but I could not get the bolt to chamber the round and again I needed to tap the bolt back with the wood.

Brought the gun home and started checking some things.

1. brass case measured 1.92 OAL
2. neck measured .295"
3. My OAL loaded round was 2.75" (.04" off the lands)
4. base of brass was .472" (SAAIM .470')

I then tried some unloaded brass and same issues.

Took a virgin brass (never fired) and it chambered and extracted good.

I compaired the virgin brass with my resized brass and the only differance was the base (.001").

When I looked at my resized brass i noticed that about .100" at the base of the brass it looks like it was not resized.

I checked my setting on my dies and I am camming over at the top of the stroke.

I then figured that maybe the chamber needed a good scrubbing since it was a used gun and have no idea how many rounds have been shot. It didn't help.

My question is: Does anyone make a 100% full length die for 6.5 Creed?

Picture below is: left older resized brass, middle resized virgin brass and right non-sized brass (virgin factory). All brass is the same manufacture (Starline)
The left brass will shoot just fine in my other re-barreled Savage.

 

[K22]

I would investigate the case head space measurement first. Do you have a bump gauge? If so, measure the case head space of the virgin, fired (primer removed) and sized case then compare the measurements.

Even with cam over, it is possible to extrude the case while sizing it if the die is not contacting the shoulder. Some presses have a lot of 'slop" in them and require more cam over for the die to touch the shoulder. If you extrude the case during sizing, it mostly likely will create difficulty in chambering. The goal is to push the shoulder back about .002".

Is the load too high of pressure causing the head to bulge?

In my experience, beside the above issue, things that can cause hard chambering are a faulty extractor - seen a lot of this in the newer Remington 700's, a rough chamber which would show tool marks on the case, an excessive dirty chamber with grease and powder residue build up, too long of a case, bullets seated out too far into the lands.

With a case in a shell holder, there will always be some part of the head area that the die doesn't size. This is normal and should not be a problem. Some rifles have out of round chambers that can cause some bulging at the base of the case but usually full sizing restores the case enough so it can chamber.

This is all I can think of for now. I'm not a gunsmith or an expert; these are just some ideas. Perhaps other more knowledgeable members can advise on other possible causes and corrections.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Are you sure that the reloads are 4 thou off the lands of the Savage? or 4 thou off the lands of your other rifle? Sounds more like a length issue to me ( but without seeing it....). You need one of those Vivid Gauges to check.

 

[SeabeeKen]

The solid web area of the case isn't normally sized. You could try a small base die if they make one in CM . Ive seem some Alpha brass that had larger than normal head size and did the very same thing in my rifle. Couldn't use it.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

You need to full length size the brass if it has been fired in a different rifle. No two chambers are the same.

 

[Bill Norris]

If you find the brass is not being pushed into the die enough you may be able to take a few thousandths off of the face of the shell holder to correct the issue.

 

[SeabeeKen]

If you find the brass is not being pushed into the die enough you may be able to take a few thousandths off of the face of the shell holder to correct the issue.

This also bumps the shoulder more

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Are you sure that the reloads are 4 thou off the lands of the Savage? or 4 thou off the lands of your other rifle? Sounds more like a length issue to me ( but without seeing it....). You need one of those Vivid Gauges to check.

I agree with this, I have a BVSS.308 and have to seat bullets a lot deeper in it compared to my Cooper chamber.

 

[GLShooter]

I never touch the die and shell holder on many of my wildcats. I've ground the holder on those. Cam over IMHO does nothing but stress the press.

Greg

 

[Bc'z]

2.92 is right at max length, as Nick said no to chambers are the same.
I just took some Norma brass and ran it through a 30-06 die to size the 200 line as I was getting clickers on bolt lift after firing bolt operation was smooth after fire forming, although it was a bit stiff on closing before firing.
I blew the brass back out using my standard load for that particular batch.

 

[bozo699]

2.92 is right at max length, as Nick said no to chambers are the same.
I just took some Norma brass and ran it through a 30-06 die to size the 200 line as I was getting clickers on bolt lift after firing bolt operation was smooth after fire forming, although it was a bit stiff on closing before firing.
I blew the brass back out using my standard load for that particular batch.

^^^^^^^
Wayne

 

[mikeinct]

I'd start w a few factory loaded cartridges .plus I'd Load a few virgin brass to the same specs. [Your old load less4/10's of a grain of [powder]. Take those cases if they function properly. reload them w your regular load. Might be tired brass. could be a tired slightly worn action.

 

[drop_point]

It sounds like different headspace between the two chambers. Try some factory ammo.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Try some sized but no powder/bullet. If they fit then it is either your seater die body set too low hitting the end of the case or the bullet is hitting the lands.

Frank

 

[243winxb]

used Savage 12

Needs new brass, all it own. If this brass , when reloaded, has a problem, check rifles head space.

 

[spudgun]

Needs new brass, all it own. If this brass , when reloaded, has a problem, check rifles head space.

Yeah, I think your right. I do have about 125 new brass that I can use for this gun.

I can take the new brass use it rechamber it and load it with out issues.

I'll just mark them to keep them seperate from the other 6.5 CM

I might try a small base die.

Are you sure that the reloads are 4 thou off the lands of the Savage? or 4 thou off the lands of your other rifle? Sounds more like a length issue to me ( but without seeing it....). You need one of those Vivid Gauges to check.

Yes, I have measured the chamber and it is different that my other 6.5 CM.

Have taken this into consideration when seating the bullets for each gun.

 

[K22]

My apologies - I missed that fact that you are loading for two different rifles and using the same cases.

This has never worked very well for me so long ago I adopted the practice of dedicating a group of cases to a specific rifle and carefully rotate their used so that all cases in that dedicated lot receive the same number of loadings, sizing, etc. to promote uniformity. Also, I start with new cases of the same lot which also promotes uniformity. This may solve many of your problems with sizing and chambering.

 

[drop_point]

When you try a sized, empty case in the rifle, spray it with blue dycem and you will be able to see marks on the case where the chamber doesn't match the sizing.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Have taken this into consideration when seating the bullets for each gun.

You might chamber one of the hard bolt lift rounds in your new gun then measure your OAL length of the round. You may be surprised that the chamber seated it a lot deeper.

 

[spudgun]

You might chamber one of the hard bolt lift rounds in your new gun then measure your OAL length of the round. You may be surprised that the chamber seated it a lot deeper.

It not only was a reloaded bullet, it was also a empty case without the bullet seated.

The issue seems to be the base of the older much reloaded cases.

I think a small base die will do the trick. Just like what is needed for AR type platforms.

Hell, it's only $40 for a SB die set. Might as well go for it.