Reloading a 6.5X55

[KMart]

I have a mod 94 Swedish Mauser with a 17 inch barrel and would like to load some 120 Nosler BT's in it. Most of the information I have found all recommend powders from about 4350 and slower. With the short barrel, I would like to use something somewhat faster to reduce the muzzle flash. I have Benchmark, H4895, AR comp, IMR 4064, and Varget.
Anyone have suggestions for the powders I have listed?

Additional info
The barrel and chamber are military .

 

[jonbearman]

Hodgdon site lists h4895 at 34.0 -37.8 max.Do not go over max as the rifle wont take it.Visit www.hodgdonpowder.com for further imfo on your powders.

 

[KMart]

Thanks Jon. I looked there but I must have overlooked it.

 

[Shynloco]

KMart,
Don't know if this is helpful, but I load for my 6.5X55 using 140 & 142 Sierra's and shoot them at targets @ 100 yds. I used to depend on IMR 4350 which shot good, but not nearly as sweet as Varget (36.0 grs) does. Info only.

Alex

 

[stool]

the swedes build 30'06's on the swede mauser receiver. they use 58k vs 60k that we use...which means that the 55k listed for the 6.5x55 is a little conservative....
remember there is a 25/30% proof test on top of those numbers.....

Hodgdon site lists h4895 at 34.0 -37.8 max.Do not go over max as the rifle wont take it.Visit www.hodgdonpowder.com for further imfo on your powders.

 

[jonbearman]

I disagree with building 94 reciever with high pressure cartridges as most smiths dont do it.I would advise against it.They were rated at about 46000-48000 maximum pressure.There are so many K98's out there,why bother taking a chance.

 

[stool]

we are all allowed our OPINIONS, but the swedish GOVERNMENT allows the conversion.
most info on conversions in the usa are based on wives tales and not on DATA.
THE SWEDISH GUNS have to be proof tested..THEY PASS.

do what you think is safe.


you have a good day

I disagree with building 94 reciever with high pressure cartridges as most smiths dont do it.I would advise against it.They were rated at about 46000-48000 maximum pressure.There are so many K98's out there,why bother taking a chance.

 

[jonbearman]

Dont take it so personal,am I not allowed to have an opinion either.All I said was I disagree,never mentioned your name,just my opinion.For that reason I still say it isnt a good idea anyways with gazillons of 98's which are way stronger and have gas reliefs to protect the shooter.I dont care about foreign governments,this is the usa where people sue other people over everything.

 

[2506]

The Swede 6.5X55 will shoot very well with about any med to slow powder. In my old Number 10 Speer manual they used the M-94 to do the work up. It still did it's best with IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 with 120 gr bullets. The 120 Sierra SP or Nosler ballistic tip running anywhere between 2400 and 3000 fps muzzle velocity is a real deer killer. You can get at least 2600 fps out of your M94 with H4895, IMR 4064 or Varget. I also agree that you should keep the pressure below 46000 CUP. You really don't need hotter loads in the Swede. That looooooooooog bullet even a 120 gr just keeps on penetrating and expanding and is a real killer.
I have killed a whole bunch of deer with a M-96 29" barrel with either 46 grs Accurate 4350 with either 120 Sierra or Nosler Ballistic Tips 3000 fps or 45 grs Accurate 4350 and 140 Sierra or Hornady SP bullets 2800 fps. These are MAX loads to stay under 46000 CUP.
I had a friend that is now passed on that hunted for years and killed deer with a sported out M-94 but he used the 160 gr Sierra RNSP and IMR 4064 but can't remember the load he used. He hunted in the thick woods and never had a shot over 50 yards. He never had to track a deer more than a few feet either. One of those 160 RNSP to the shoulder and the deer dropped in it's tracks.

 

[Barlow]

I have a couple of Swedish 6.5x55 Mausers, and have done some reading about them. The first ones were built by Mauser in Oberndorf, but they were not made with German steel. The Swedes made them use Swedish steel which they said was superior to German steel. Norma loads are much hotter than U.S. loads, so maybe they are stronger than we think. If you handload, just increase your loads until you get pressure signs and then back off. The same procedure used in any bolt action rifle. That's not to say published data is wrong, just be reasonable and carefull. Barlow

 

[Shynloco]

.... just increase your loads until you get pressure signs and then back off.... That's not to say published data is wrong, just be reasonable and carefull. Barlow

Barlow's words are wise and should be followed. As a side note to this "pressure issue, I've noted over the years that more often than not, the loading data shown in the various manuals, is more often than not, on the conservative side and that though "max load" should alert a handloader to getting up there in pressure, once you get above those "max loads", be VERY aware of the likelihood of signs of a pressure. That suggestion is for those who are relatively new to handloading.

 

[KMart]

Thanks everyone for your help.

Ken

 

[bow shot]

What a great round!

I also have a '94 (well, just passed down to my son...). Never could nail down the debate over the steels, but I got this, which is pretty darn good considering the bullet is not at all ideal, and this was just a "fun" group I shot with fouler rounds. I originally burned IRM 4064, but the local guy ran out. I'm gald I gave 4350 a try!!. I could expect this rifle to always do this well as long as I was shooting well. This is off a bipod and rear bag, and the rifle is sporter contour. I think it is an old Kimber barrel..

 

[slamfire1]

I have a couple of Swedish 6.5x55 Mausers, and have done some reading about them. The first ones were built by Mauser in Oberndorf, but they were not made with German steel. The Swedes made them use Swedish steel which they said was superior to German steel. Norma loads are much hotter than U.S. loads, so maybe they are stronger than we think. If you handload, just increase your loads until you get pressure signs and then back off. The same procedure used in any bolt action rifle. That's not to say published data is wrong, just be reasonable and carefull. Barlow

Pre WW1 steels are vastly inferior due to slag and impurities to the same steels today. The plain carbon steels of that period are also inferior in properties to the alloy steels used today. No one today would build such an expensive and safety critical part, such as an action, out of plain carbon steels. If you examine the uses of modern plain carbon steels today, steels of similar composition, even though they are made with better process control and instrumentation, these steels are used for low grade applications like concrete rebar.

Go look at Charpy impact data, especially at low temperatures, and compare the amount of energy it takes to shear plain carbon steel versus alloy steels. You will find that alloy steels commonly used in firearm applications take twice the impact to shear as these plain carbon steels.

There are good reasons why there are all these recommendations to load these pre history actions light. It all has to do with primitive steels and primitive process controls.

While it is nice to read that the Swedes thought their 1890's steel was better than German 1890's steel, guess what, no one today is flying around in Zeppelins, and this state of the art craft was still a couple of decades in the future

 

[stool]

more wives tales....
do you have DATA to support your OPINION that swede mausers are inferior ???

generalizations about metal as a whole does not readily mean specific steel, used in swede actions was inferior.

I have a couple of Swedish 6.5x55 Mausers, and have done some reading about them. The first ones were built by Mauser in Oberndorf, but they were not made with German steel. The Swedes made them use Swedish steel which they said was superior to German steel. Norma loads are much hotter than U.S. loads, so maybe they are stronger than we think. If you handload, just increase your loads until you get pressure signs and then back off. The same procedure used in any bolt action rifle. That's not to say published data is wrong, just be reasonable and carefull. Barlow

Pre WW1 steels are vastly inferior due to slag and impurities to the same steels today. The plain carbon steels of that period are also inferior in properties to the alloy steels used today. No one today would build such an expensive and safety critical part, such as an action, out of plain carbon steels. If you examine the uses of modern plain carbon steels today, steels of similar composition, even though they are made with better process control and instrumentation, these steels are used for low grade applications like concrete rebar.

Go look at Charpy impact data, especially at low temperatures, and compare the amount of energy it takes to shear plain carbon steel versus alloy steels. You will find that alloy steels commonly used in firearm applications take twice the impact to shear as these plain carbon steels.

There are good reasons why there are all these recommendations to load these pre history actions light. It all has to do with primitive steels and primitive process controls.

While it is nice to read that the Swedes thought their 1890's steel was better than German 1890's steel, guess what, no one today is flying around in Zeppelins, and this state of the art craft was still a couple of decades in the future

 

[Thauglor]

I loaded some Hornady 6.5 with IMR 4064 tonight in .5 gr increments. I will give an update on how they perform in the CG80 tomorrow.

 

[slamfire1]

more wives tales....
do you have DATA to support your OPINION that swede mausers are inferior ???

generalizations about metal as a whole does not readily mean specific steel, used in swede actions was inferior.

I look at your post and it is apparent to me that you are ignorant of the history of metallurgy. As an analogy, you are asking a question similar to "What cell phone did Jesus use?" People born after 1990 might not realize that is a trick question. Your post on steels is somewhat analogous.

Learning is always a good thing, so bone up on the history of metallurgy. Just what steels were available and in use in the early 1890's? Now I know, from the book "Crown Jewels, The Mauser in Sweden", the production period of these 1894 carbines, and I know from other sources what steel was used in the GEW98's. I also know, from a Ludwig Olson article, the general category, of the steels used in these Swedish receivers.

So, just create a chronology of what steels were available and when. It will become very obvious that Jesus could not have had a cell phone.

Then, compare the material properties of period steels against a common modern firearm steel, say 4140. This is a very common steel used in post WW2 rifle receivers and bolts. Let me offer what I consider to be the most two important properties: yield and toughness.

Which one is better, and by how much?

If you really want to contribute value to the world, find out when Sweden created a materials society similar to the American Society of Automotive Engineers. The SAE created some of the earliest metal standards and knowing when that happened is of value because it shows just how primitive was the state of the art around 1900. I have no idea of just when the Swedes created definitions for steels, their material properties, and their testing standards. This would be of historical interest.

 

[stool]

still saw no answers...more words with no answer to the question.
have you done a charpy v notch test to prove that the swede recievers are inferior to other recievers OF THEIR TIME ?...
you know, some engineering study of the part ??

what i KNOW is that common practice was to sample mil ammo and base reloading on the pressure of that ammo.
safe but not scientific.....the swedes and finns TESTED the recievers and established working and proof pressures....something never done in the usa /saami.......

DID I EVERY SAY COMPARED TO A MODERN receiver, no ..never.
what i asked was there some PROOF or DATA to show that swede receivers were inferior to others of their day ??

do you realize that russian ammo for 7.62x54r is loaded to around 2600-2900 bar......way under the 3600 bar the russians used for proof on the mn rifles....but that the finns tested and established 3900 bar as safe and that is what CIP says today.
if we had used the nra method we would have mns loaded at 3000 bar or less.

more wives tales....
do you have DATA to support your OPINION that swede mausers are inferior ???

generalizations about metal as a whole does not readily mean specific steel, used in swede actions was inferior.

I look at your post and it is apparent to me that you are ignorant of the history of metallurgy. As an analogy, you are asking a question similar to "What cell phone did Jesus use?" People born after 1990 might not realize that is a trick question. Your post on steels is somewhat analogous.

Learning is always a good thing, so bone up on the history of metallurgy. Just what steels were available and in use in the early 1890's? Now I know, from the book "Crown Jewels, The Mauser in Sweden", the production period of these 1894 carbines, and I know from other sources what steel was used in the GEW98's. I also know, from a Ludwig Olson article, the general category, of the steels used in these Swedish receivers.

So, just create a chronology of what steels were available and when. It will become very obvious that Jesus could not have had a cell phone.

Then, compare the material properties of period steels against a common modern firearm steel, say 4140. This is a very common steel used in post WW2 rifle receivers and bolts. Let me offer what I consider to be the most two important properties: yield and toughness.

Which one is better, and by how much?

If you really want to contribute value to the world, find out when Sweden created a materials society similar to the American Society of Automotive Engineers. The SAE created some of the earliest metal standards and knowing when that happened is of value because it shows just how primitive was the state of the art around 1900. I have no idea of just when the Swedes created definitions for steels, their material properties, and their testing standards. This would be of historical interest.

 

[KMart]

2900 bar = 42060.94394 psi

3900 bar = 56564.71771 psi

 

[Thauglor]

Well, in my CG80, here is 35.5 grains of IMR4064 in military wooden ammo pulled down and reused with Hornady 140gr bullets. The bottom shot was a called flyer by me. Target is a small bore A-51, with the xring 4mm inches and the 10 ring 9mm in diameters and 9 ring is 23mm. Was not reading wind, only trying to tune in elevation. Not bad for unsorted brass.