Reload issue?

[pastime]

Ok, Got everything together and started making ammo yesterday. Ruger SR45:

230 grain LRN
#300 CCI LPP
IMR SR4756 6.4 grains
Cartridge OAL 1.258
above data for reference only

I have a question about the OAL. I started out with the recommended Lee Load Data OAL of 1.275 . The cartridge would go into battery but the slide would lock and I could not pull it back to eject the shell. To remedy the issue I began to lower the OAL a couple of thousandths at a time. I hit the sweet spot at 1.258. At 1.259 I could feel it trying to hang up. My question is: is 1.258 an acceptable OAL for .45 ACP? The strange thing IMO is A factory 230 grain FMJ I mic. was 1.263 and they feed fine. I am new to reloading lead bullets so I am sure there is a learning curve compared to FMJ's.

 

[artbosco]

Ok, Got everything together and started making ammo yesterday. Ruger SR45:

230 grain LRN
#300 CCI LPP
IMR SR4756 6.4 grains
Cartridge OAL 1.258

I have a question about the OAL. I started out with the recommended Lee Load Data OAL of 2.75. The cartridge would go into battery but the slide would lock and I could not pull it back to eject the shell. To remedy the issue I began to lower the OAL a couple of thousandths at a time. I hit the sweet spot at 1.258. At 1.259 I could feel it trying to hang up. My question is: is 1.258 an acceptable OAL for .45 ACP? The strange thing IMO is A factory 230 grain FMJ I mic. was 1.263 and they feed fine. I am new to reloading lead bullets so I am sure there is a learning curve compared to FMJ's.

I think you mean 1.275", which is max for the 45 ACP.

Having said that, head on over to: http://forums.1911forum.com/ and then state your question in the Reloading Bench forum. You'll receive numerous high quality responses from very polite and knowledgeable 45 ACP gurus.

 

[stool]

i use 1.225/1.230 for my 230 rn loads...
the book is NORMALLY telling you a max length.

work up from their start load
i stop the seating depth right before the nose radius...something flat for the "crimp"

 

[Witchhunter]

Yes, you are fine, use the COL that works on your gun and start low and work up to where you want your velocity or accuracy.

 

[pastime]

After a hard second look at the instructions that came with my die set I found where it mentioned the minimum OAL at 1.200. Thanks for your time and effort to all who posted. :-[

 

[mjoplin]

The OAL can vary a lot from gun to gun. My Kimber 1911 likes an OAL of 1.25 for LRN rounds. It sounds like you were too long and jamming into the lands. SAAMI specs run from 1.190 to 1.275. If you start loading LSWC rounds you will have a much shorter length yet, typically seeing about 1/32" of the bullet shoulder above the case neck driving a much shorter OAL.

A couple of things to look out for:

1. Do the plunk test. take your barrel out of the pistol and check the fit of a loaded round in it (ref attached image)
2. Overcrimping can cause feed issues as well. 45acp headspaces on the case mouth. You want a diameter of .470 there or the round won't chamber correctly (will definitely show up in the plunk test). Taper crimp enough to just remove the belling at the case mouth.

You also may want to consider a different powder. 4756 is a bit slow for the 45. Unless you are at the max loading, it's going to be dirty. You may be better served with Clays, Unique, or Win 231 in the 45. One of my favorite loads is 3.9 gr. Clays under that 230 gr. LRN. Very clean, low recoil, and accurate.

Outdoorsman was on the money about resources. Great crew on the 1911forum reloading bench!

 

[stool]

while technically correct, the truth of the matter is that most( not all) semi autos hold the case by the extractor, long before the case mouth hits the end of the chamber.
you can load to avoid this, tho it is not a big deal at all.

1911's are easy to check....prime a sized case that is at saami spec long side, chamber it.. and pull the trigger. if it goes bang great( it probably will) ; now trim a case very short by 90 thou or so. this should put the case in front of the firing pin. now chamber it and pull the trigger. if it went off..it was the extractor holding it back( or one really long fp).

again technically correct , bu tin real life it seldom happens.

2. Overcrimping can cause feed issues as well. 45acp headspaces on the case mouth. You want a diameter of .470 there or the round won't chamber correctly (will definitely show up in the plunk test). Taper crimp enough to just remove the belling at the case mouth.

 

[fdshuster]

stool; I agree with what you said about the extractor holding the case, limiting it's forward travel in the chamber.

In most instances it is impossible for the case mouth to contact the front of the chamber, since the max. case length is .898", ( but in truth the majorty measure .894" to as short as .888"), while the chambers can be as long as .915".

To check what I say, remove the barrel on any 1911, be sure the chamber is clean, and take a depth measurement from the rear edge of the barrel hood, forward into the chamber, until the depth gauge stops at the front of the chamber. Then compare that length with the case length's of any make 45 ACP brass. A big difference between brass length and chamber length, with brass length always being the shorter.

 

[stool]

lol in 20 yrs i have only once seen 45 acp brass that was at sammi spec..all has been shorter.

stool; I agree with what you said about the extractor holding the case, limiting it's forward travel in the chamber.

In most instances it is impossible for the case mouth to contact the front of the chamber, since the max. case length is .898", ( but in truth the majorty measure .894" to as short as .888"), while the chambers can be as long as .915".

To check what I say, remove the barrel on any 1911, be sure the chamber is clean, and take a depth measurement from the rear edge of the barrel hood, forward into the chamber, until the depth gauge stops at the front of the chamber. Then compare that length with the case length's of any make 45 ACP brass. A big difference between brass length and chamber length, with brass length always being the shorter.

 

[pastime]

When I first posted this question I new very little about OAL. With ya'lls help I now understand that the OAL can vary and probably will from firearm to firearm. With the first ten cartridges I reloaded I did the plunk test according to the information I had including the image on mjoplin post and set it up like # 3 . That is what caused me concern. I thought if it looked like the picture then why isn't it working. What I had failed to do was to push a little on the rim of the cartridge to see if it would go further into the chamber and or get stuck. The last ten cartridges I reloaded with an OAL of 1.250 shot fine and were minute of beer can at 10 yards. What I am wondering now is how much the crimp figured into the equation. I could try a longer OAL ( to get it closer to the lands for accuracy) and fiddle with the crimp and see if will cycle through my SR45. I am still a little unsure of the crimp I am using and I am in the process of researching it. I use a Lee FCD instead of the bullet seating die for crimping. Below is an image showing the crimp as it is set now.

 

[stool]

skip the lee fcd!!!!
that bullet is bigger in dia than a jacketed bullet for a reason..and the fcd will size it back to jacketed dia..
go back to the std crimp die....

lead bullets typically need a bigger dia to seal and fit the bbl...the fcd removes this...not a good idea.

fcd is nice with factory style/jacketed bullets

 

[pastime]

skip the lee fcd!!!!
that bullet is bigger in dia than a jacketed bullet for a reason..and the fcd will size it back to jacketed dia..
go back to the std crimp die....

lead bullets typically need a bigger dia to seal and fit the bbl...the fcd removes this...not a good idea.

fcd is nice with factory style/jacketed bullets

I have read where some have had that issue with the fcd. Out of curiosity I gauged some .45 ACP cartridges before and after using the fcd and the measurements were exactly the same (.452)....?

 

[Steve Ladino]

Hey pastime,
Your picture shows what looks to me to be a slight roll crimp of the case mouth into the bullet. There is no problem using the "Factory crimp die, FCD????) as long as the loaded ammo feeds into the chamber and fires ok and you get good accuracy.
A crimp is used to keep the bullets in unfired rounds in the magazine from deep seating themselves as the gun recoils. Without some crimp at the case mouth you may experience a failure to feed due to the expansion of the case mouth which is done in the loading stage where the mouth is expanded to facilitate bullet seating into the case. Another nice crimping die is called " A taper crimp die " which is easier on your brass.

 

[pastime]

Hey Spladi,

I did that crimp with the FCD. I was under the impression that it was supposed to do a taper crimp. Here is a closer look. Look at the left side of the crimp. I believe that shows a taper crimp. Your opinion?

I have been testing ten shot groups of reloads for the past few days. I believe I have everything set up correctly now.I made about 60 cartridges today and fired all of them without issue and spot on accuracy at 25 yards. Put a grin on my face for sure.

 

[stool]

lol..you say GAUGED....but then say they were all 452,,,,,
so just what did you do ?
cause 452 is a bullet size, not a loaded round od
first...lead bullets or jacketed bullets..
the fcd is an issue with lead that is correctly sized for a gun..not generic bullets.
read what i say, not what you think i say.

skip the lee fcd!!!!
that bullet is bigger in dia than a jacketed bullet for a reason..and the fcd will size it back to jacketed dia..
go back to the std crimp die....

lead bullets typically need a bigger dia to seal and fit the bbl...the fcd removes this...not a good idea.

fcd is nice with factory style/jacketed bullets

I have read where some have had that issue with the fcd. Out of curiosity I gauged some .45 ACP cartridges before and after using the fcd and the measurements were exactly the same (.452)....?

 

[pastime]

lol..you say GAUGED....but then say they were all 452,,,,,
so just what did you do ?
cause 452 is a bullet size, not a loaded round od
first...lead bullets or jacketed bullets..
the fcd is an issue with lead that is correctly sized for a gun..not generic bullets.
read what i say, not what you think i say.

Using a Vernier Caliper Gauge I measured the bearing surface diameter of four out of the box (.452) LRNBB projectiles. Each one had a bearing surface diameter of (.452). I then made two dummie cartridges without a crimp and two dummie cartridges crimped using the fcd. Then I pulled all four and measured the bearing surface diameter of each one. All four had a bearing surface diameter of (.452)

skip the lee fcd!!!!
that bullet is bigger in dia than a jacketed bullet for a reason..and the fcd will size it back to jacketed dia..
go back to the std crimp die....

lead bullets typically need a bigger dia to seal and fit the bbl...the fcd removes this...not a good idea.

fcd is nice with factory style/jacketed bullets

I read your post (listed above) word for word and my understanding of it was simply that, my understanding of it. My reaction to it was to test your findings for myself as I have read many conflicting statements about the fcd. I am basically a newbie when it comes to reloading. I did some reloading about thirty years ago but decided that this time I would start from scratch and not try to remember the way I used to do things in favor of learning it from the beginning all over again. I was a young buck then and felt I needed to do everything quickly. I am older now and have discovered the value of taking my time and researching/asking questions in any new endeavor I may undertake until I completely understand it. That may mean asking questions that may seem silly or funny to someone else. As I said I am not a young buck anymore and I do not have the time to worry about what others think about me or any questions I may ask. I would much rather spend the time doing research and finding /getting answers. I thank you for your time stool. If my questions and or answers bother you in any way I would suggest ignoring them. If I made you laugh, good, we all could use more laughter in our lives these days.