Teslong borescope -- What It Reveals Can Bug You

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Not for competition but one of my best shooting 22" sporter factory Savage barrels looks like the tracks from a D8 dozer. It carbons a little. It coppers a little. Shoots under MOA out to 200 easily.

That's actually a pretty good example of breaking in the throat...not the bbl. I've never seen a newish Savage that started out with railroad crossties that I broke in until they disappeared. Has anyone else?

 

[Turkeytider]

They're a good tool to inspect for a carbon ring or anything else but it comes down to how we deal with what it shows us. How on earth did we ever make it without them(borescopes) so well?

By paying more attention to what happens down range rather than what the inside of the barrel looks like?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

By paying more attention to what happens down range rather than what the inside of the barrel looks like?

That's right!

 

[ELR LVR]

Teslong = TMI.

It can drive a person crazy.

If yer rifles shootin' good, stay away from Teslong.

Agreed,
little things will trigger the OCD radar, especially things we can't control
even pitted barrels shoot well, but will drive you crazy in the back of your mind causing you to want to change out the barrel when it is not neccessary
I believe many of us are too focused on "Looks" rather than "Results"
---
I have some beautiful looking barrels that don't shoot worth a crap too

 

[Kracken McGraw]

There really is such a thing as too smooth. Not sure about too clean but the abrasive cleaners that have become popular today polish the bore. I think we are sometimes our own worst enemy and with the advent of $50 borescopes and a touch of OCD...we can create more problems than we fix with abrasive cleaners. Before jumping on me about that, remember this...I know of a couple of bbl makers that strongly suggest or void your warranty altogether if you use abrasives like Iosso or Thoroclean. So, it's not just coming from me.
Maybe we were better off without borescopes that show every iota left behind that makes some people polish too much. Yes, they're clean but maybe too smooth by the time we get there...especially so if used regularly.

I sure wish I had taken pics of a bbl I was sent a couple of years back, just to put a tuner on. I did the install and thought I'd do a quick clean before sending it home.
Well, the very first patch of patch out came out like new blue jeans. I continued for a while and it was freakin loaded with copper after a few soakings.
It was a 30BR, famous for lack of copper fouling and it was a premium bbl.

I finally called the owner....I asked if it had been fouling...Nope Never...BUT! He had just changed his cleaning process to include Thoroclean.
I thought well, maybe.
Bottom line, it was a bbl that never fouled before changing his cleaning routine and it was damn sure fouling now! Maybe as bad as any I've ever seen! And I've seen some ugly ones!

But this thing was freakin gorgeous inside and had a low round count. It was so gorgeous, it was like a mirror inside.

I told the customer my thoughts but never followed up with him like I should on this.
But some things are pretty indisputable.
The bbl never fouled before
He changed his cleaning method to an abrasive type cleaner.
The bore now fouled as bad or worse than any I've ever seen
And the bore looked like a mirror once I finally got the copper out without abrasives.

Just sayin...This is my firsthand account and I'm hearing more and more of these types of things all the time from shooters.
Abrasives sure make things pretty and easy BUT like I said...there ABSOLUTELY is such thing as a bore that's TOO smooth..believe it or not.

I've seen others and I've seen pics of several more that align with what I'm sayin. And don't forget, there are top of the line bbl makers that have been saying the same thing too.

That's the biggest problem with borescopes, right there! They were made affordable to a community that is anal in every detail and where more must always be better!!

Rant off now but I hope ya'll hear me on this.

I’m listening, you guys wouldn’t be saying it if it wasn’t true.

 

[William Vogel]

It’s important to clean down to barrel metal but the gun doesn’t shoot good at that point. I’ve begun to journal the number of shots to find when they don’t shoot dirty and I haven’t gotten there yet. I just clean again. One day maybe I’ll find when they ask to be cleaned but the borescope lets me know when it’s clean. I love it.

 

[JFrank]

A barrel with only ten or fifteen rounds is much easier to clean but long range guys have to go all day and know how many rounds we can go before accuracy drops off.
My good barrels don’t seem to copper much but that carbon builds up quickly and takes more than chemicals to get out even after soaking overnight.
I’ve also heard many times that bronze wont hurt a barrel but I’ve seen plenty of scratches after using a bronze brush so what’s up with that ? lol but it isn’t that funny when seen through a scope.
Once broken loose a little bit of Thorroclean gets the carbon out and so far hasn’t hurt a thing I can see, nor has it advanced the throat from my measurements or polished a barrel. Can’t say the same for JB or Iosso paste.
I have my routine that seems to work for me and that’s all that matters.
If a barrel won’t shoot, I’ll know it right away, after that I don’t need a warranty.

 

[ebb]

"If your rifle is shooting good stay away from Teslong." Get Real, get real knowing the truth is not a problem, knowing the truth can only help. If your rifle has a barrel that looks like a sewer pipe but still shoots good, or as good as it needs to, how does knowing hurt? You either live with it, or you don't. Oh i get not knowing makes it all go away, and you can imagine it's a Kreiger.

 

[1911nut]

For me it’s just a tool. I now know a reasonable, “ minimally invasive “ cleaning regime for each rifle.

 

[Rubberduckie]

I have a habit of buying older unknown rifles. I love being able to see the condition of the throat and barrel. I just bought a set of silhouette pistols that probably haven't been shot in 20 years. The last 24hrs has been me soaking and scrubbing them. These guns were gross and caked with copper, carbon and what looked like mold. I've almost got them down to bare metal. Im glad to have a teslong

 

[jackieschmidt]

I do not know one Short Range Benchrest Shooter that does not use bronze brushes. And lots of them.

 

[G Liles]

I let the target tell me how the barrel is shooting, I use the borescope ONLY to see if it’s clean!! If I start looking at the condition of the barrel with the borescope my head wants to explode !!

 

[jelenko]

It's not a bad product but I think it gets misused and that's why multiple bbl makers void their warranty because of it.

I personally think you're over doing it a bit but if it's working for ya, do what you and your bbl maker agree on. Remember, it's not just how often, but how and how many strokes too.

Personally, if I use abrasives at all it'll be more like every 300-500 rounds. I mean, how did we ever make it without abrasive cleaners, before? Lol! I think I said two good things about abrasive cleaners in my long post above...that they work and they work EASILY. I think the easy part is what gets most of us. Then we over do it.

Again though, it doesn't matter one iota what I think. So talk to your bbl maker before going the easy route. He may already have said that your warranty is void if you use abrasive cleaners and some may say it's void if you use them a certain way. Bottom line...listen to your bbl maker.

FWIW, I've been assuming I'm cleaning more than necessary.
I've gotten away with it because I compete in 'cross the course' where 1/2 MOA is gold. So, I can degrade the barrel from it's .2 MOA potential and it doesn't matter. And, the barrel's accuracy lasts right where it's supposed to [i.e., 3000+ rounds] and

On my next barrel I'll go with every 300 rounds and see if I can detect any difference in accuracy.

 

[ELR LVR]

I’m listening, you guys wouldn’t be saying it if it wasn’t true.

Supposedly, A barrel should not have a mirror finish inside
One thread on this forum showing the ECM rifled barrels, say that after they machine a barrel like that, the bore is too smooth so they have to lap it after to change the surface finish to be more ideal for what we do.
The Barrel makers that Lap their barrels
I believe ALSO, lap specifically to impart the right finish on the bore
to help prevent coppering
with a mirror finish, there is more surface contact on the bearing surface, = more coppering
Think of it like
Slick tires vs Grooved tires
Or actually more like the finish of a Golf Ball
With a Golf ball like finish, much of the bearing surface "Rides On" the surface of the bore
the more bore surface we provide, the more copper is stripped from the bullet
the surface irregularity is in microns
in effect, we want the least amount of contact without allowing any gasses to escape
---
The guys using things like Flitz to polish their bore, are not helping their bore.
but they likely like the results and the barrel life they get so it dont matter much

 

[ISS]

Given Sweets 7.62 a patch or three yet? Scrub completely after a few minutes if you do.

 

[NZVarminter]

yep, no chemicals will get all the carbon out...only way is with a paste. Isso, JB etc.

Teslon's customer service is as good as it gets. I bought one through aliexpress, it was faulty. contacted Teslong and gave my purchase details. They sent a replacement. That was also faulty (different fault). they sent another replacement out. 11 months later the cable started intermittently loosing connection. contacted Teslong again and they sent out another full replacement borescope, cable and monitor. QA may not be that good, but their customer service is superb

 

[Tangent]

Supposedly, A barrel should not have a mirror finish inside
One thread on this forum showing the ECM rifled barrels, say that after they machine a barrel like that, the bore is too smooth so they have to lap it after to change the surface finish to be more ideal for what we do.
The Barrel makers that Lap their barrels
I believe ALSO, lap specifically to impart the right finish on the bore
to help prevent coppering
with a mirror finish, there is more surface contact on the bearing surface, = more coppering
Think of it like
Slick tires vs Grooved tires
Or actually more like the finish of a Golf Ball
With a Golf ball like finish, much of the bearing surface "Rides On" the surface of the bore
the more bore surface we provide, the more copper is stripped from the bullet
the surface irregularity is in microns
in effect, we want the least amount of contact without allowing any gasses to escape
---
The guys using things like Flitz to polish their bore, are not helping their bore.
but they likely like the results and the barrel life they get so it dont matter much

This is exactly what I think is going on. I usually clean about every 60 rounds. C4 and Eliminator, very occasionally Cu+. I'm only shooting Tikka factory barrels at the moment but it seems to do the job. No Teslong yet, ignorance is bliss, for now!

 

[ELR LVR]

This is exactly what I think is going on. I usually clean about every 60 rounds. C4 and Eliminator, very occasionally Cu+. I'm only shooting Tikka factory barrels at the moment but it seems to do the job. No Teslong yet, ignorance is bliss, for now!

every 60 rounds is a very good baseline to stick to
every barrel is different as to when accuracy noticeably starts to fall off
but depending on the caliber and velocity, you have a realistic regimen going on

 

[ebb]

Supposedly, A barrel should not have a mirror finish inside
One thread on this forum showing the ECM rifled barrels, say that after they machine a barrel like that, the bore is too smooth so they have to lap it after to change the surface finish to be more ideal for what we do.
The Barrel makers that Lap their barrels
I believe ALSO, lap specifically to impart the right finish on the bore
to help prevent coppering
with a mirror finish, there is more surface contact on the bearing surface, = more coppering
Think of it like
Slick tires vs Grooved tires
Or actually more like the finish of a Golf Ball
With a Golf ball like finish, much of the bearing surface "Rides On" the surface of the bore
the more bore surface we provide, the more copper is stripped from the bullet
the surface irregularity is in microns
in effect, we want the least amount of contact without allowing any gasses to escape
---
The guys using things like Flitz to polish their bore, are not helping their bore.
but they likely like the results and the barrel life they get so it dont matter much

With a 30 caliber barrel the bullet is .308 the bore is .300, it's riding on the complete bore no matter what you or I do. How does an oversized bullet get down the barrel only touching the high spots that you or I left?

 

[Tesoro]

I spend more time looking at targets than my bore, but when I do use my teslong it is check for firecracking

A barrel with only ten or fifteen rounds is much easier to clean but long range guys have to go all day and know how many rounds we can go before accuracy drops off.
My good barrels don’t seem to copper much but that carbon builds up quickly and takes more than chemicals to get out even after soaking overnight.
I’ve also heard many times that bronze wont hurt a barrel but I’ve seen plenty of scratches after using a bronze brush so what’s up with that ? lol but it isn’t that funny when seen through a scope.
Once broken loose a little bit of Thorroclean gets the carbon out and so far hasn’t hurt a thing I can see, nor has it advanced the throat from my measurements or polished a barrel. Can’t say the same for JB or Iosso paste.
I have my routine that seems to work for me and that’s all that matters.
If a barrel won’t shoot, I’ll know it right away, after that I don’t need a warranty.

Order Dewey no harm bronze brushes.