Redding Match Full Length Sizing Only 75% of Neck?

[Riflman]

Hey guys. I've owned and used Redding Type S Match Neck Die sets, but just bought some that are the "full" version. I set them up last night so that the die was hitting the case holder, added the appropriate bushing and sized some 243 Lapua cases, but only about 75% of the neck is being sized? Is that normal? Is it possible that this is actually a neck size die and NOT a full die. The cases had already been fired, so were not new. It just doesn't make sense to me. On the top of the die, I usually drop in the bushing, then screw the top down firmly onto the bushing, then back off a quarter turn to "float" the bushing. I guess I'll have to try screwing it down all the way to check and measure the shoulder.

 

[rhovee]

Yep happens on all my bushing dies.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Quarter turn is too much. All you need is a rattle

 

[Riflman]

Quarter turn is too much. All you need is a rattle

I can't get a rattle, but then I have the expander still in it.

 

[nmkid]

That's the first thing I remove from my Redding type S dies. Amount of sizing is normal.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I can't get a rattle, but then I have the expander still in it.

Check to make sure the bushing isnt sitting on a bur or something. With an open top the bushing should move around. Then screw the plug into it til it stops then just crack it off that. As close as you can get to the bushing but not touching it

 

[mikecr]

What's merchandised as FL bushing die is usually not a FL die, but instead a body-bushing die.
Nothing wrong with this as it does size the body like a FL die. It bumps shoulders like a FL die. And it partial length sizes necks, which is superior to FL sizing them.

You can get FL bushing dies that are actual FL dies. These include the shoulder in their bushings.

 

[dcali]

If I follow the instructions (giving barely any clearance for the bushing), my type s dies (.223 and .308) size the whole neck. Or as much of it as I can measure accurately, at least. I don’t understand this. Everyone tells me that they don’t do this. But they do.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If I follow the instructions (giving barely any clearance for the bushing), my type s dies (.223 and .308) size the whole neck. Or as much of it as I can measure accurately, at least. I don’t understand this. Everyone tells me that they don’t do this. But they do.

Yes they do- at least good ones, you wont have an unsized portion.

 

[Bc'z]

Flip the bushing over, it's got a lil bit of taper to it.

 

[JFrank]

As long a you have the desired bullet hold what does it really matter?
Just curious
J

 

[Joel Dubose]

I have the same problem, you can't get away from it with a bushing die. At least not the way that they are currently made. There is a company that the bushing has the shoulder bump on the bushing, but its $600 to get it. Not to cool with that price however I might end up buying it. Looking for a simple solution. I've been looking at the forester bushing and bump die but not getting great feedback it seems. Still don't know if it will size the neck 100% .

 

[rwj]

@SPJ said it well, especially if the bullet’s pressure ring is located in the sized section of the neck.

 

[nmkid]

Guess I'll have to read the instructions on my Redding dies again. I have 6 sets and have never been able to size the whole neck. We shall see.

 

[mikecr]

As long a you have the desired bullet hold what does it really matter? Just curious J

It matters. Bullet grip (tension) is normally up to 1thou (no more) neck spring back against an area of seated bullet bearing. This grip force is adjusted through length of neck sizing.
That's normal, as partially neck sized with bullet bearing seated short of donut area/neck-shoulder junction.

When you FL size necks, which is normally beyond seated bullet bearing, you bring base-bearing binding into play, from the portion of neck that's not upsized with bullet seating. Worse, it's thicker & inconsistent donut brass gripping, plus that donut is reinforced by your shoulder profile. This is all different from the grip provided from the first 3/4 of neck length. It's a lot stronger tension, with a lot more variance to it.
With an underbore cartridge relying on extreme starting pressures, this can be fine. But for a hunting capacity cartridge there is no 'good' in it. Only bad.

An advantage of bushing use is not just downsizing selection. It's also separate sizing length selection.
Don't bind bushings, cranking them all the way down to maximize sizing length and jack up your runout. Relax, pick a reasonable sizing length, develop your load with it, then tweak that sizing length a bit for best results.
And don't keep going smaller and smaller with bushings, beyond a ~thou (after springback), with partial length neck sizing. Your excess sizing beyond normal springback is just excess,, increasing seating forces to mess with consistent CBTO, and for nothing anyway. The seating bullet would just expand necks back out, and bullets are lousy expanders.

 

[wedgy]

In my 6.5x284 Redding bushing dies the FL die does as the OP describes BUT the competition neck sizing die #56415 will size the entire neck

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have the same problem, you can't get away from it with a bushing die. At least not the way that they are currently made. There is a company that the bushing has the shoulder bump on the bushing, but its $600 to get it. Not to cool with that price however I might end up buying it. Looking for a simple solution. I've been looking at the forester bushing and bump die but not getting great feedback it seems. Still don't know if it will size the neck 100% .

Neil jones makes one a whole lot cheaper. Not necessary but he makes it for those that want it. His bushing has the neck and shoulder built in

 

[tmwinds]

I had a .30 BR FL bushing die that was not sizing the full length of the neck. The bullets I was loading had a .0008 pressure ring at the base of the bullet. When the bullet was seated the pressure ring at the base of the bullet expanded the neck and the pressure ring was in the unsized lower part of the neck. This situation caused the bullet to have minimal neck tension and move forward due to the heavily compressed load.

I had the portion of the die that the bushing drops into reamed deeper to allow the bushing to drop deeper and size the neck to the almost the shoulder. Problem cured.

 

[Fotheringill]

Call Redding. My bet is that they are going to tell you that is how it was designed.

 

[dcali]

Your excess sizing beyond normal springback is just excess,, increasing seating forces to mess with consistent CBTO, and for nothing anyway. The seating bullet would just expand necks back out, and bullets are lousy expanders.

I would add that any sizing beyond springback will push your neck tension past the yield point of the brass, at which point the gripping force is no longer proportional to the distance the brass is stretched. If you do this, your neck tension will be dependent on the consistency of the yield point, which is much harder to control than the dimensions of the sized neck. You'd need to anneal very consistently, and it's hard to verify that you've done that since we can't practically measure the yield point.

This is a good argument for using light neck tension and hardened brass. I haven't found this matters at F class accuracy levels, where I've been able to find good loads no matter the neck tension, but it's food for thought.

Does this theory square up with what you benchrest guys see?