Redding Competition Shell Holders

[minnesotamulisha]

I just ordered a set of Redding Competition shell holders for 308. I am also using the Redding Type S Neck Bushing Die Set

Are these the correct steps to bump the shoulder back?

1. Insert Shell holder into ram that is +.002"
2. Insert brass into shell holder
3. Screw in sizing die until it hits shoulder of unformed brass
4. Lock down sizing die
5. Replace +.002 shell holder with +.004"
6. Bump shoulders back .002" with sizing die

Thanks for any help!

Adam

 

[barefooter56]

Adam,
The die should be set up using a standard shell holder and a piece(s) fired in that rifle per the instructions or just touching the shell holder. Start with the .010 thick competition shell holder and work down (.008-.006 etc) from there till you get the shoulder bump you want. Use a fired cartridge case to get your bump set up. Either the longest one (fired) that you can find using a bump gauge and calipers to sort the cases from base to datum line or a cartridge case that chambers but the bolt handle has resistance in the last 1/4 or so of the bolt throw. If you can take the firing pin assembly out of the bolt that's the best way to check how the bolt closes on your set up cartridge case. For target shooting try for .001-.002 bump, hunting .003-.004 . Lever action, pump and semi-automatics .005-.006. Some shooters just use the rifle as a gauge with the firing pin assembly out of the bolt and size the brass so that there is no resistance in the first 3/4s of the bolt throw to closed but the last 1/4 has very slight resistance. Use the bump gauge body/insert and caliper combination to check the cartridge case if you want a number to refer to later as far as a measurement from base to datum line on the shoulder for what all cases should measure to fit your chamber. This should get you started.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[CatShooter]

I just ordered a set of Redding Competition shell holders for 308. I am also using the Redding Type S Neck Bushing Die Set

Are these the correct steps to bump the shoulder back?

1. Insert Shell holder into ram that is +.002"
2. Insert brass into shell holder
3. Screw in sizing die until it hits shoulder of unformed brass
4. Lock down sizing die
5. Replace +.002 shell holder with +.004"
6. Bump shoulders back .002" with sizing die

Thanks for any help!

Adam

Adam...

I have the comp shell holders (in 5 different numbers, including 308/0.473").

First, the Bushing "S" neck die will NOT bump the shoulder.

You need a "FL bushing die", a "Body die", or a "Forster Bump die".

Second - you start with the +10, and see if that moves the shoulder the amount you want (by measure or feel)... if not, you try the +8, then the +6, etc, until the case shoulders are moved the amount you want. by whatever criteria you have.

 

[jimbires]

what I like to do is neck size only a couple times until I get a couple brass that are a little tight in the chamber . this way I know I'm working with fully expanded brass . new brass will spring back enough on the first fire or two that you will not be able to set up your shoulder bump properly . set the body , or full length ,die to firmly contact the shellholder . then start with the .010 shellholder and work towards the .002 . I measure my brass shoulder length , and try to get about .002 shoulder bump . as you do this you will notice the brass case actually gets longer , before it gets shorter . this happens because you are squeezing the case and not pushing the shoulder yet , this is normal . just keep stepping down in shellholders until you get your .002 shoulder bump .

 

[CatShooter]

"... as you do this you will notice the brass case actually gets longer, before it gets shorter . this happens because you are squeezing the case and not pushing the shoulder yet, this is normal . just keep stepping down in shellholders until you get your .002 shoulder bump."

This "... as you do this you will notice the brass case actually gets longer," does NOT happen with the Forster Bump die because it does not touch the body.

 

[minnesotamulisha]

The die set that I bought consists of the S Type Neck Bushing Die, the body die, and also the standard seating die. Using the Redding Body Die, I assume that the case would not grow as it also only bumps the shoulder. Is this correct?

 

[CatShooter]

The die set that I bought consists of the S Type Neck Bushing Die, the body die, and also the standard seating die. Using the Redding Body Die, I assume that the case would not grow as it also only bumps the shoulder. Is this correct?

No... the body die is a Full Length sizing die without the neck portion - treat it like a FL die, cuz that is what it is.

 

[dmoran]

A body die will resize the body (including the shoulder) and not the neck at all. From which, neck sizing is done in a separate step. Personally, I have, use, and like this scenario (body die + neck die) for several factory cartridges. Gains to concentric's and neck tension adjustments is why I like the combination.

Good Luck,
Donovan

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Just to clarify, the Redding Body Die WILL NOT bump the shoulder? Is the Forster Bump die the only die available that will only bump the shoulder?

 

[Patch700]

Just to clarify, the Redding Body Die WILL NOT bump the shoulder? Is the Forster Bump die the only die available that will only bump the shoulder?

No that is incorrect. . A body die will size the case rite down to the base along with bump the shoulder , it does not size the neck because it is opened up at the top of the die.

The forster bushing bump neck die will do 2 things , it will size the neck with whatever bushing you chose and it will bump the shoulder back.. what the forster bushing bump neck die does not do is size the body of the case.

A full length bushing die would allow you to size the case and the neck and also bump the shoulder back.

There are varying opinions on the effects of bumping shoulders with a neck size bump die such as the forster..
My experience with them is that at some point you WILL need to size the brass in either a FL die or body die to bring the base of the case back into check to achieve a fit that doesn't require stiff bolt lift etc.

 

[bigedp51]

I just ordered a set of Redding Competition shell holders for 308. I am also using the Redding Type S Neck Bushing Die Set

Are these the correct steps to bump the shoulder back?

1. Insert Shell holder into ram that is +.002"
2. Insert brass into shell holder
3. Screw in sizing die until it hits shoulder of unformed brass
4. Lock down sizing die
5. Replace +.002 shell holder with +.004"
6. Bump shoulders back .002" with sizing die

Thanks for any help!

Adam

minnesotamulisha

If you have a off the shelf factory .308 rifle or any caliber factory rifle, I find my runout to be worse with bushing dies. I get the least amount of runout with standard full length resizing dies. This has to do with the larger diameter of the neck on factory rifles and the neck wall thickness variations of the cases. On top of this the bushings "float" so you have no guarantee the neck will be as straight as in a full length die.

In the technical articles here at this website it is recommended with bushing dies to use a muti-step process with different size bushings to not distort the case neck.
Second, a neck sizing die either standard or bushing type does not touch the shoulder or body of the case. So just use a full length sizing die without the expander button installed and then use a expander die to expand the necks.

 

[minnesotamulisha]

I just ordered a set of Redding Competition shell holders for 308. I am also using the Redding Type S Neck Bushing Die Set

Are these the correct steps to bump the shoulder back?

1. Insert Shell holder into ram that is +.002"
2. Insert brass into shell holder
3. Screw in sizing die until it hits shoulder of unformed brass
4. Lock down sizing die
5. Replace +.002 shell holder with +.004"
6. Bump shoulders back .002" with sizing die

Thanks for any help!

Adam

minnesotamulisha

If you have a off the shelf factory .308 rifle or any caliber factory rifle, I find my runout to be worse with bushing dies. I get the least amount of runout with standard full length resizing dies. This has to do with the larger diameter of the neck on factory rifles and the neck wall thickness variations of the cases. On top of this the bushings "float" so you have no guarantee the neck will be as straight as in a full length die.

In the technical articles here at this website it is recommended with bushing dies to use a muti-step process with different size bushings to not distort the case neck.
Second, a neck sizing die either standard or bushing type does not touch the shoulder or body of the case. So just use a full length sizing die without the expander button installed and then use a expander die to expand the necks.

Thanks Bigedp51. I own a Savage F T/R in 308, so a factory rifle.

I ordered the Forster Bump Bushing die so that I can neck size and bump the shoulder in one step. The only issue I see with it is that I believe I need a .335 bushing, but the die set only comes with .336 and .334. I'm not sure what kind of effect this will have being I measured a loaded round at .336".

I've also ordered bushings for my Type S Neck sizing die so that I may neck size in two steps, one at .339", and one at .335".

Probably going to have to neck size first at .339" with the Redding Die, and finish to .336" or .334" with the Forster Die.

 

[snakepit]

. Personally, I have, use, and like this scenario (body die + neck die) for several factory cartridges. Gains to concentric's and neck tension adjustments is why I like the combination.

Good Luck,
Donovan

Does it matter the order you do it in, body die then neck die or neck die then body die? I do this procedure and have wondered if the order makes a difference.

 

[barefooter56]

Snakepit,
I do the neck first than the body die. That way if something happens and you pull the neck/shoulder up with the neck die you can fix it with the body die. Hope this helps!
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[snakepit]

Snakepit,
I do the neck first than the body die. That way if something happens and you pull the neck/shoulder up with the neck die you can fix it with the body die. Hope this helps!
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

Phil, thanks for the information. I had usually done the body die first but for no particular reason. I will now do the neck die first then the body die.

Thanks again for the information.

 

[hogan]

Some observations on the above replies:

Pulling the firing pin w/o pulling the ejector (if in boltface) will produce error. Got a win 70? Just set the safety lever in center and if you have CRF all is good. In pushfeed, pull the ejector.

Redding Type S FL die is a body die and FL sizer w/bushing variables. Buy one get all the potentials.

Don't need shoulder bump-back until the brass is fully-expanded. Set your FL sizer to that dimension and you aren't working the brass to no purpose. UNLESS you are loading for semi-auto rifle, which presumably few on this board do. IF load for AR type rifle you want minimal .003" under full chamber dimension oal to shoulder, maybe less for match loads, maybe even .004 for must-seat situations. Really worth buying a Wilson Case Gauge or Redding Precision Mic to read variations in brass dimension and setup your sizing die.


Might seem trivial, but heavy spring rate on your ejector can off-center your ammunition. Light spring rate will put the spent case at your feet rather than in the next county and assure better case alignment. Springs are cheap, buy a few and the proper dimension pin drift so you can tune spring rate to work for you, not against you.

As far as order of sizing; neck size last if doing it as a separate process. Using graphite/mica inside case neck when sizing w/expander ball? Sure reduces pull on the brass when the ball is coming out the neck and neck is unsupported. Might consider polishing your expander ball so that it don't drag on case neck as you pull the brass from the sizing stroke.

Might also consider tightening your ejector rod while the pin is inside the flash hole to assure most centered alignment of expander ball. If anything, might use a separate universal depriming die and have that process not influence your sizing efforts in any way.

 

[CatShooter]

Redding Type S FL die is a body die and FL sizer w/bushing variables. Buy one get all the potentials.

The body die IS a FL die, without the neck being touched.

 

[snakepit]

As far as order of sizing; neck size last if doing it as a separate process.

Snakepit,
I do the neck first then the body die. That way if something happens and you pull the neck/shoulder up with the neck die you can fix it with the body die. Hope this helps!
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

hogan, why do you recommend doing the neck size last if doing it as a separate process? I have had several people including Phil Hoham in the above post say do it first for the same reason that Phil indicated.

 

[hogan]

My experience is that firing in a typical factory headspaced chamber and then FL sizing causes the case and neck to grow, the brass moves forward. This is why cases are trimmed to oal specific dimension. Also why want to adjust sizing die, if used on 1 particular rifle ammunition, to minimal FL restoration; the purpose of this discussion.

Measure the oal of a fired case and then FL size same case. IF the case were really in need of FL sizing, the brass is displaced forward, and oal length has increased. If you size neck first, do you just have to resize it after the FL or Body Die moves the brass forward?

I don't neck size anymore. I load ammunition to match specs but size to fit all rifles of that chambering that I own. Basically size to the smallest chamber... This is more productive to my needs. I decap my brass on a Lee depriming die, then use FL S die with selected bushing. I don't turn necks either.

Have gotten some very fine results, even using R-P brass which is supposed to be verboten.
I am less interested in precision boltguns as time goes by. Precision ARs, yes! Have several of each. They shoot the standard handloads well enough so I don't have to tailor sizing, seating depth and use different brass headstamp for each rifle. The bolt actions are more hunting intended and could be ammo tweaked but I shoot more off-hand or in the field from prone w/o stable position.

Loading quality ammunition is a craft aided by understanding of chamber dynamics. Shooting well is an art. Lots of ways to the same end result. Much being whatever makes you confident and absent of question or doubt. I have confidence in my regimen, routine, process; and it works.

As far as order of sizing; neck size last if doing it as a separate process.

Snakepit,
I do the neck first then the body die. That way if something happens and you pull the neck/shoulder up with the neck die you can fix it with the body die. Hope this helps!
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

hogan, why do you recommend doing the neck size last if doing it as a separate process? I have had several people including Phil Hoham in the above post say do it first for the same reason that Phil indicated.

 

[Brians356]

Anyone interested in a new/unopened Redding Competition Shellholder Set #10 (for 223 Rem etc.)?

I bought a extra set by mistake, will deliver them for Midway's listed price - you save on the shipping and any applicable state taxes.