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Redding Competition Seater OAL variance

Just got the die delivered yesterday. I loaded some 223 and the OAL was a lot larger than I get with standard seater dies. I was using 60gr vmax and 52gr hpbt Speer bullets. I was shooting for 2.265" but the length was going from 2.258" to 2.267"

I was using new starline 223 brass. It was sized to clean up the necks with a fl sizer. I used a Redding piloted chamfer tool to chamfer the mouth. And not a compressed load. That spring I can not feel the bullets seating.

Anyone have an issue like this? The die was cleaned and lubed. I tried seating on two different presses and it was the same. I have several Lee seater dies that are more accurate than this die. I am not impressed at all with it. Headed out tomorrow to try the rounds I loaded.
 
Did you get the VLD seating stem with the dies?

Have you measured your bullets before seating. -variance is probably already there - most people - well, at least me - don't measure by OAL but by BTO due to variations in the OAL of bullets - but BTO is generally consistent.
 
Actually this thread holds a lot of similar answers.

A regular press teaches bad habits, you really can’t develop a good feel of the ballet moving with an 18” cheater bar and compound leverage pivot points. It’s had to explain, because it’s almost a feeling not a fact. Move to an arbor press and you realize how much leverage a standard press has.

The Redding competition die is in the same category. It doesn’t matter how hard you pull the handle, the spring will only push the bullet so hard. If you bottom the spring out so it works like a regular seating die, it’s easy to deform the seating stem. That’s a good thing to check for since it will cause the type of problem you are describing. The end of the stem flares then drags inside the die, or can crack.

Compressed loads are off the table for the same reason. A little bit of compression is not a problem, but the instructions say “no compressed loads” for a reason. If the pour of the powder is not consistent, the seated depth won’t be either. The spring just doesn’t have enough power to compress the powder.

The spring is also sensitive to neck tension. So overly sized necks or inconsistently sized necks will vary the force needed to seat the bullet and vary the length.

You mentioned new brass, and did not mention any lube for the neck or bullet. Here is another place dry neck lube or carbon from previous shooting comes into play. It makes a huge difference in seating force and consistency

A consistent pressure on the lever on the seating stroke is also important, again the spring is in control of how the bullet seats, so how it’s compressed comes into play. Stopping and starting the stroke or variations in speed can cause variations in seated depth.

Setting up the die can be a pain. Seat the bullet, check the length. If it’s not right, set it aside, make your adjustment, pick up another case and bullet and try again. Use the micrometers reading to dial in, it works. The problem is that it takes more force to get a bullet moving once it’s been seated, than one already moving. Working a bullet down to a desired depth in multiple steps is a sure way to have the next bullet seated completely differently, generally shorter.

Sorting your bullets by length and measuring base to ogive might explain some variation, but more than .010” sounds like a brass prep issue more than a bullet variation problem.

I’m sure I missed some other things that play into the mix, but those are the big ones.
 
A Redding comp seater should not be (and is not) reliant on spring pressure to seat the bullet. The seating stem should contact the little nub on the threaded adjustment stem at the top of travel. The spring only provides pressure to the cartridge sleeve. As the assembly slides up the floating seat stem will ride up and contact the nub on the adjustment stem. The seating stem floats within the sleeve and never touches or is affected by the spring.
IMG_5225.jpeg
 
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The die is set up as the maker instructed. Screw the die down till the body touches then back it off till you can read the graduations on the die. That is a 1/4 of a turn back with my stuff. The seater stem fits the 60gr vmax really well. It is not hitting the tip. It is pressing on the ogive of the bullet.

And if you think about this and how the sliding insert works, the height of the case could very well effect the oal if the head space was varying. It should not be as this is brand new never fired brass that I sized to clean up the necks.

What is going on with my brass and that other post with the vmax is way different. I know what my components are and what was done to hem. He was not listening on what people were trying to help him. I have already loaded these exact same components with other die sets. I was only getting a 0.001" variance with the other seater die.

I even went to another press to see if that helped. But it did not. The cases were tumbled in my walnut media with some car polish in the media. I have never needed to lube a bullet to seat it other than a brush and the media to clean the necks.

I have no way as of now to sort the bullets. There is no way a bullet would vary this much. If it did they have no reason to be making bullets.

I am listening. I will be ordering the Sinclair bullet measuring base and stand next week. So for now it will have to wait.
 
What I am wondering, is with the new brass, is if I don't have enough neck tension. I know that will do exactly as what I am having. I got about 50 rounds that have now been fired in the gun. So later tonite I am going to size them and try loading a few to see if it goes away or is still there. My neck die will constrict about 0.001" more than my FL dies do.

Thinking about it I think this may be the issue.
 
Just got the die delivered yesterday. I loaded some 223 and the OAL was a lot larger than I get with standard seater dies. I was using 60gr vmax and 52gr hpbt Speer bullets. I was shooting for 2.265" but the length was going from 2.258" to 2.267"

I was using new starline 223 brass. It was sized to clean up the necks with a fl sizer. I used a Redding piloted chamfer tool to chamfer the mouth. And not a compressed load. That spring I can not feel the bullets seating.

Anyone have an issue like this? The die was cleaned and lubed. I tried seating on two different presses and it was the same. I have several Lee seater dies that are more accurate than this die. I am not impressed at all with it. Headed out tomorrow to try the rounds I loaded.
I had this issue with my Redding 243 AI competition seating die. Redding tech said every once in a while the sleeve that lines up the bullet is slightly too small for some bullets. He had me send the die back to get it hone it it to get bullets to fit.
 
Just got the die delivered yesterday. I loaded some 223 and the OAL was a lot larger than I get with standard seater dies. I was using 60gr vmax and 52gr hpbt Speer bullets. I was shooting for 2.265" but the length was going from 2.258" to 2.267"

I was using new starline 223 brass. It was sized to clean up the necks with a fl sizer. I used a Redding piloted chamfer tool to chamfer the mouth. And not a compressed load. That spring I can not feel the bullets seating.

Anyone have an issue like this? The die was cleaned and lubed. I tried seating on two different presses and it was the same. I have several Lee seater dies that are more accurate than this die. I am not impressed at all with it. Headed out tomorrow to try the rounds I loaded.
V
 
Well I figured it out. Neck tension! I loaded up 10 rounds with 23.4gr vv n133 with Speer 52gr hpbt match at 2.2745" All 10 were exactly 2.2475" once I got the depth set right.

I will have to take out my expander on my 2 fl dies and see what the diameter is. It must be a mis-match with this brass. I use mixed range brass in my AR15 rifles and it holds the bullet fine and I don't get the variance I got with the Starline. Now I got about 300 pieces of brass I am going to need to size again.

Starline says not to use a Lee collet neck sizer on virgin brass. Why would that be?
 

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