Recoil Management? help me spend my $$!

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Ok so I've been out of the shooting/reloading game for about 10 years and just getting back into it. I figured I should use what I have for a little bit before buying the next thing. I only really have experience with the .308 and 22-250 as far as long range shooting (only out to 400 yards but hoping to change that). Basic experience.....

I'm trying to refine the loading skills and shooting techniques. I loaded up some 168 Nosler CCs in my Savage 308 FCP-K (1:10 twist) with variable powder loads until I found one that was grouping well. Load testing is being done at 300 yards as I'm looking for the best groups at long range and my local range only has 300 yards. I'm shooting off a magpull bipod on the bench with a cheap Allen rear bag - have the bipod on the lowest setting and basically sliding the bag and pinching it to shim it. I definitely notice that depending on how I load the bipod, hold the grip (or not hold and just use finger on the trigger), slightly apply backpressure with my right index/ring finger onto the grip (without actually wrapping my hand around the grip). I really want to get my 300 yards groups tighter but I feel like I hit a wall. Not sure if it is my shooting, loading, or just the gun, or some combination.

To paint a better picture of what I'm getting at the range:

The photo with the calipers - 300 yards left target with vertical string, the ears on the bag were pinched to shim the stock and I had some back pressure with index and ring finger. 300 yards same photo but 3 shot group I didn't apply back pressure with right hand and only touched the trigger.

The photo with the diamond target - specifically the 5 shot group circled with red. This was similar technique as the photo with calipers.

Is there a better was to be more consistent? Different bag setup? What are the best bags to use for ultimate consistency on the bench with a rifle like this? Is the bi pod contributing to this? Is this pour recoil management? The Savage has a really thick soft spongey recoil pad that probably isn't ideal for consistency.

10 years ago a buddy let me shoot his stock Savage FTR 308 at 300 yards and I was consistently able to to shoot 1-1.5" groups. It wasn't a one group thing, I put 50 rounds through the gun. I would really like to get back to that kind of consistency. I've been obsessively trying to chase this kind of accuracy with my FCP-K setup.

So do I keep working on this 308 FCP-K? Or spend some money and get something new? I've been reading about the 6mm and 6.5 stuff and thinking it is the way to go. I want the ergonomics to be way better than my savage because it isn't very comfortable. Never had a chassis rifle but the custom action chassis rifles look good because they are very adjustable. Found out that they make a adjustable bag rider system to shim the stock with micro adjustments. https://www.adjustablebagrider.com/ Can you put something like this on a more traditional stock like a manners or grayboe?

Suggestions on a new rig?

 

[std7mag]

Are you trying to get set up for shooting matches?
Or is this just informal target shooting?
If it's for a specific type of competition shooting, shoot how you would during the match.
IE, F-Class prone.
Bench Rest obviously from a bench.
A bipod shoots differently from the ground vs a bench.

My practice when shooting bipod is enough loading with my shoulder so the butt of the rifle doesn't drop.
Trigger hand is only index finger for trigger, and thumb.
I found if i hold too tightly with my trigger hand, i actually torque the rifle and get more inconsistancies.

 

[Gil P.]

Record yourself shooting and show it to some members on here. It's hard to help you with the little information you gave us.

I would stop shooting off a bench and refine your prone technique. Once you have a good grasp on that, try different positions.

Grasping the rifle differently will produce groups in different places.

The precision underground rear bags are very good.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

With your setup I believe you will have significant drop of the stock, especially if shooting "free" (minimum hold). Shooting skills are easily dulled, practice,practice,practice.

 

[Nealm66]

Tagging in, I’ve been trying to learn how to shoot off a bench with bipods and having some success with a light recoil 22 creedmoor by pulling back and having the bipod starting to fold a little bit so that when it does recoil it’s not putting down force on the feet. Made sense in my mind and so far it’s working pretty well. Going to work with a 6.5 prc next and see if it holds water. Definitely would work with the rifle off a proper rest and make sure it’s shooting perfectly before I tried with a bipod. Will be interesting to hear others with good experience

 

[microcenter]

So far it is informal target shooting to perfect the loading and shooting technique. Maybe some F-class in the future depending on how it goes. I will see if I can get a video the next time I'm at the range.

I might try to find a good front shooting rest that is adjustable to take the bi-pod out of the equation to see how that changes things.

Do these work well? https://www.caldwellshooting.com/re...ition-front-shooting-rest/440907.html#start=1

Do most people take the front swivels off the stock to shoot from a bag or rest properly? I'm assuming its a different animal because you cant really lean into something like this to "pre-load" it? Like you normally would be able to with a bipod.

 

[Nealm66]

I leave the sling stud on and use it as a reference to keep my stock placement the same each time keeping it far enough forward so it doesn’t bump on recoil. That rest looks like it would need a flat bottom stock otherwise it will be wobbly. Preloading a bipod by pushing forward hasn’t worked for me off a hard bench. Just the opposite, but I’m still trying to figure it out. I took 2nd place in a 600 yard match yesterday using my bipods using the pull back but will be more sure of its success when I climb up in recoil. Definitely not what YouTube recommended but seems to be working for me

 

[Delfuego]

Better bipod, better rear bag, better bullets, good muzzle break and lots of practice.

 

[6bra1k]

Record yourself shooting and show it to some members on here. It's hard to help you with the little information you gave us.

I would stop shooting off a bench and refine your prone technique. Once you have a good grasp on that, try different positions.

Grasping the rifle differently will produce groups in different places.

The precision underground rear bags are very good.

PRONE AINT FOR EVERYONE,, benches work great with proper technique for the equipment in use. bipods suck for repeatability in small target shooting. lol go look at f class for a "bipod".

 

[6bra1k]

I leave the sling stud on and use it as a reference to keep my stock placement the same each time keeping it far enough forward so it doesn’t bump on recoil. That rest looks like it would need a flat bottom stock otherwise it will be wobbly. Preloading a bipod by pushing forward hasn’t worked for me off a hard bench. Just the opposite, but I’m still trying to figure it out. I took 2nd place in a 600 yard match yesterday using my bipods using the pull back but will be more sure of its success when I climb up in recoil. Definitely not what YouTube recommended but seems to be working for me

studs are known for tearing the heck out of front bags..just saying..take it out and use a stop on the rest for the stock

 

[6bra1k]

i have shot some 308 savages with big bbls. they have potenntial. not top of the heap and not beyond 600 yards as a rule. try a tipped 175 or 185 for serious 600 yard work. try prone if you think you are going to do fclass...it aint for everybody..try it

 

[Nealm66]

studs are known for tearing the heck out of front bags..just saying..take it out and use a stop on the rest for the stock

I haven’t had it happen even if I space off and forget to make the space. Maybe a super cheap front rest? Even 30-378 weatherby works fine so I call internet bs

 

[Gil P.]

PRONE AINT FOR EVERYONE,, benches work great with proper technique for the equipment in use. bipods suck for repeatability in small target shooting. lol go look at f class for a "bipod".

This post is in the practical precision prs, nrl, elr forum. That is why I recommended he shoot prone instead of using a bench.

The op didnt say if he had a physical disability that would prevent him from shooting prone, nor was his post made in a general or br forum.

 

[Slickrick0999]

Just my opinion...
Group shooting from a bench lends itself better to a front rest and nice rear bag (like protector or something).
Bipod shooting is different and has much more shooter influence over the system.
Not saying that you can't shoot good or great groups from a bipod at all.
I shoot Bipod now but have options of feet for different surfaces or requirements of the range.
Prone is another thing entirely (at least to me).
Prone does offer some lessons on shooter influence tho (as do all positional formats).
If you are just getting "back into it", I would recommend getting a decent front rest and rear bag that fits you & your rig if you want to shoot from a bench.
Now, I would first go and find a match or range that has people shooting like you want to and observe & ask questions.
Don't go just spending money first, find someone willing and able to help you first.

 

[Gil P.]

Just my opinion...
Group shooting from a bench lends itself better to a front rest and nice rear bag (like protector or something).
Bipod shooting is different and has much more shooter influence over the system.
Not saying that you can't shoot good or great groups from a bipod at all.
I shoot Bipod now but have options of feet for different surfaces or requirements of the range.
Prone is another thing entirely (at least to me).
Prone does offer some lessons on shooter influence tho (as do all positional formats).
If you are just getting "back into it", I would recommend getting a decent front rest and rear bag that fits you & your rig if you want to shoot from a bench.
Now, I would first go and find a match or range that has people shooting like you want to and observe & ask questions.
Don't go just spending money first, find someone willing and able to help you first.

Good advice. It would be pretty easy to find someone willing to spend an afternoon with you to help you out.

 

[DirtySteve]

No muzzle breaks allowed in F-class.. Just FYI..

 

[One Eye Pete]

The rifle you are presently using doesn't have a flat forend. You can use a front rest but without a flat front 3 inch bagrider attached the gun will tend to rock in the front bag and torque as you shoot. You will have to constantly watch the anti cant level to avoid canting the rifle. For your rifle I would highly reccomend a Sinclair F class bipod. The F class bipod with its wide stance is very stable and doesn't need to be front loaded. There are better bipods out there but not for the price. Many club level F T/R shooters use the F class bipod, and with a good Protector or Edgewood rear bag they are very successfull.
If you want to go with a different rifle the Savage F T/R is an excellent place to start better then a lot of the highly touted "chassis" rifles. The other good way to start out is with a used custom rifle. A good source for used custom rigs is The Shooters Corner. Check out their website. It's owned by Bob White a top level bench rest shooter and an excellent gunsmith. He normally has a number of real good used rifles of all types in stock along with other shooting equipment.

 

[CharlieNC]

Your vertical stringing can be the result of inconsistent control of the rear bag during recoil. Unless you hold the bag with the same pressure, it's easy for the bag to collapse during recoil, sending the shot high. Try a hard bag, such as a Protektor, to help diagnose.