Rear bag fit on Savage 12F and Protektor customer service. (pics)

[Frozentundra]

I called Protektor and ordered a Doctor mid ear cordura (1" spacing) filled with heavy sand. The friendly lady on the phone said they would have to sew one up and it would ship in 2 days.
2 days later I decided I wanted a 3" and 2" front bag so she took my order and said she would combine it with the order I had going out that day so I wouldn't have to pay double shipping.

It was refreshing to get treated like like that from a company for a change.

Now fit question:
The stock fits between the ears perfect but only contacts on the very front edge, I would need to shim it about 1 full inch to get it to sit flat between the ears. I assume that is what I should do as its much more solid that way.

It's hard to see on this crappy picture but it rests about 50/50 on the front edge of the cordura and the leather & is about 7/8" off the bag in the back.

Sits in the bag nice and solid shimmed like this and slides much better.

 

[Joe O]

Guess you needed to tell them that the bottom of your stock was level.
Guess they could have made it,since they customized yours anyway.Shim is your only fix with that bag.Looks good.

 

[jonbearman]

I have never seen a bag with that much taper for this type of rifle.Did you tell them what you were shooting? I would call them and explain the situation you have and try to straighten it out.They make bags with little to no taper,they should swap it out.

 

[artbosco]

Now fit question: The stock fits between the ears perfect but only contacts on the very front edge, I would need to shim it about 1 full inch to get it to sit flat between the ears. I assume that is what I should do as its much more solid that way.

It's customary to order a bag with 1/8" less spacing than the width of the rear stock. In other words if the width measures 1" wide you would ask for 7/8" spacing between the ears. The reason for that is to ensure that the butt does not ride directly on the flat of the bag. You want to see a little light between it and the stock.

There have been several articles written in this site covering spacing: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/09/rear-bags-match-them-to-your-stock-profile/ , read down the entire page for additional comments, sand type: http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bag-sand-comparison-test/ , and distance between bags: http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/optimize-your-rifle-position-on-rests/ that should be very helpful. In addition, here is a good one on how bags should be filled by Hall of Fame inductee and now professor of gunsmithing Speedy Gonzalez: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Filling%20Sandbags.htm .

Also, depending on what type of surface you're placing your rear bag on, you might want to request a customized donut from Protektor. It will help stabilize your bag on uneven surfaces and can act as a spacer too, adding or removing sand as needed. Speak with David at Protektor. He made me a nice one for around $25.

P.S. If you received a bag that you were not expecting or you incorrectly ordered it, David will take care of you.

 

[undapresha]

With that much taper it almost looks like that could be a bag for a 12 f/tr

instead of a 12 f which you have.

Protektor is very easy to deal with as you know and they should make it right. Good Luck!

 

[smoking-brass]

The bag was made for a savage f/tr...which has a tapered stock...the folks at protektor are great folks to deal with...they made the bag for a f/tr...call them back and see if they will exchange it for you.

 

[Kenny474]

I would try to call Protektor and see if you can get a bag with no taper and 7/8" spacing in the ears, or possibly have yours modified, though I'm not so sure about that. If the bottom of the butt is parallel with the fore-end, than you need a flat bag in the rear as well. If not, you end up needing to shim it, which is going to be a pain in the arse, not to mention hard to get the same every time and be consistent about it.

If it comes down to it, sell what you have and order a correct bag. It will be much better and easier to shoot from as well.

Kenny

As an afterthought, they may have made it for a model 12 BR, which also has a tapered butt.

 

[Lee308]

Hiya, not sure on your rules over there but in Aust I have seen a few people with the bag sitting in a small home made box. I the base of the box you could insert shims to get the taper. as long as it is a neat fit around the base of the bag with individual shims you could fit it to fit the stock of any rifle, it is just a matter of removing one shim and replacing it with another to fit a different stock. As the bag is still a bag and not able to be adjusted once on the range it may fit into you rules for comps but best to check to be safe.

 

[in2deep]

It's hard to tell from the picture but the bottom part of the bag appears to be under-filled quite a bit and collapsing it's shape from the weight of the rifle. You may try packing it full of sand (using a pencil) to give it a bit more rigidity and that should help to level the bag a bit more since the ears should stand more erect. Unless the bag and everything else is perfectly level (and it never is) then the rifle will always sit at an angle anyways and by looking at your picture it seems there is enough ear contact to keep it tracking straight and with more sand packed in it should not hit the bottom of the bag.
I would try that before sending it back it just may track straight and you might like it. It's hard to determine if a bag tracks true with a particular rifle till you set up the rest and bag and move the rifle back and forth simulating recoil and determining how true it tracks and repeats. Sometimes a harder bottom and softer ears can make a difference too depending.

 

[Frozentundra]

It's customary to order a bag with 1/8" less spacing than the width of the rear stock. In other words if the width measures 1" wide you would ask for 7/8" spacing between the ears. The reason for that is to ensure that the butt does not ride directly on the flat of the bag. You want to see a little light between it and the stock.

The stock measures 3/4" at the very end 7/8" at the rear of the bags ears in an average bag position and 1 1/8" at the front of the ears.

David replied to my email and said I should go with the flat top bad but now I am unsure of what ear spacing to tell him.

 

[Jerry]

I have ordered several bags from them and they will make whatever you want. I get my rear "Doctor" bag that is flat on top with double stitches between the ears. The bottom of my 1K lightgun buttstock is level and rides this bag smooth as glass. Cardura top with leather sides. Silicone on ears.
Can't beat their service and delivery. If you try the cardura tops you'll never use a leather top again.
Tell them what you want and they will take care of you.
Jerry

 

[artbosco]

It's customary to order a bag with 1/8" less spacing than the width of the rear stock. In other words if the width measures 1" wide you would ask for 7/8" spacing between the ears. The reason for that is to ensure that the butt does not ride directly on the flat of the bag. You want to see a little light between it and the stock.

The stock measures 3/4" at the very end 7/8" at the rear of the bags ears in an average bag position and 1 1/8" at the front of the ears.

David replied to my email and said I should go with the flat top bag but now I am unsure of what ear spacing to tell him.

You've got a dilemma.

All three of my BR stocks are the same width across the entire bottom surface. My Sharp Shooter Supply Long Range Bencrest stock is 3/4" all across the bottom and both my Kelbly BR FB stocks are 1/2" all across the bottom.

If you want that stock to track correctly, one way to solve that problem is to have a gunsmith make the entire bottom surface the same width. After you have that done, then you can tell David how much space you want between the ears.

Also, you might consider the tall Cordura ears vice the medium. You tend to get better tracking that way too. Good Luck.

 

[artbosco]

I have ordered several bags from them and they will make whatever you want. I get my rear "Doctor" bag that is flat on top with double stitches between the ears. The bottom of my 1K lightgun buttstock is level and rides this bag smooth as glass. Cardura top with leather sides. Silicone on ears.
Can't beat their service and delivery. If you try the cardura tops you'll never use a leather top again.
Tell them what you want and they will take care of you.
Jerry

I used to use silicon spray on my Cordura bags but have ceased using it.

Currently, I'm not putting anything on a new set of Cordura front and rear bags as recommended by Tony Boyer in his new book. I've found the two surfaces, one with and one without silicon, to be indistinguishable in terms of slickness. All I do now, is brush the dust off once in awhile with a soft brush.

Without the silicon the ears stay cleaner and the expense of purchasing silicon also goes away. I continue to use stock tape ... fore and aft.

 

[ttfreestyle]

i also had protector make me a custom bag for my savage F class and if looks exactly like the one in your pics. i was very specific about which gun i have and which stock it had and that it was flat.... do i need to shim it up to level it out as well?

 

[artbosco]

i also had protektor make me a custom bag for my savage F class and if looks exactly like the one in your pics. i was very specific about which gun i have and which stock it had and that it was flat.... do i need to shim it up to level it out as well?

If you have to shim to level it out, you've got the wrong bag for your stock's profile. Call David at Protektor Model: http://www.protektormodel.com/

 

[Frozentundra]

David finally got back to me today, he said to send it back with a note on what I need/want.
I am thinking of just getting the flat top bag with the tall cordura ears this time. I will keep the 1" spacing since its in between the 7/8" & 1 1/8" my stock measures.

 

[Frozentundra]

I sent the bag back a in January and just got it back last week, I had to make a couple follow up calls to check on it but I they did make one that fits real good, I might have to take a little heavy sand out of the ears.
Its a flat top bag with tall cordura ears.
Overall I am still very happy with Protektor, I think if I had really needed it and followed up earlier it wouldn't have taken so long.

 

[artbosco]

David finally got back to me today, he said to send it back with a note on what I need/want. I am thinking of just getting the flat top bag with the tall cordura ears this time. I will keep the 1" spacing since its in between the 7/8" & 1 1/8" my stock measures.

If you'd rather not bring the butt stock into uniformity for whatever reason, for example, going to a consistent 7/8" or 3/4" [Edgewood normal Ear Spread: Narrow (3/16") Regular (3/8") or Shehane (3/4")], don't forget that you can always overfill the ears a tad to make up for the difference. The idea being, to get the butt to ride slightly off the bag's center stitching for smooth consistent recoil.

Matching front and rear bags to front and rear stock dimensions is extremely important to accuracy [as much as a precision barrel] whether shooting short or long range, holding or using free recoil. More so with free recoil. At 100 yards, a .001" movement at the rifle equates to approximately 1/4" on target.

A slight movement of the rifle within the confines of one or the other of your bag's ears, can ruin a nice group.

 

[artbosco]

I might have to take a little heavy sand out of the ears.

Here's a little known secret you might want to try. It comes from Speedy Gonzalez, BR Hall of Fame member:

[I've paraphrased] Use plenty of heavy sand in the base of the rear bag ensuring there is no low spot below the ears [pack it in good and tight]. Replace the heavy sand in the ears with a mixture of play ground sand also know as silica sand and Harts Parakeet Gravel. Sift to get any large impurities out of the silica sand then mix it with 25% to 50% of Harts parakeet gravel to the desired hardness that you're looking for. [I also use the same mixture in my front bag].

Bag filling Secrets explained: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Filling%20Sandbags.htm