I have some questions for the you QuickLoad gurus out there. Being new to the program I am curious on what factors to look for for when choosing a powder. What particulars do you like to see in the powder itself? Heat of explosion, burning rate etc. How do you like to see your pressure and velocity curves compared to the attached ones? I attached a couple of load recipes one being a published recipe with the CFE-BLK and one I created with H-4198. I would like some input on if there is any adavantage from one or the other. I realize the 300HAM'R is almost always a compressed load so that comes into play. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
QuickLoad Powder Alternatives
- Thread starter amtx2019
- Start date
For me, when I'm trying to find a powder (like an available powder to replace one I can't get) I look for one that will fill my cases at 100% or slightly less along with a burn rate that'll burns 100%, or close to it, by the time the projectile leaves the barrel. And along with this, making sure the pressure is within SAAMI spec. As far as pressure and velocity curves, I like to match them to loads that have done well before, given the same other components. To get somewhat good numbers to start off with, the thing I'd do is measure case volume of my cases as QL's default value is likely not the same and affects the numbers you're looking at.
As far as the recipes you're showing here, I don't much care for them as the case is way over filled IMHO, producing a pretty compressed charge and the powder isn't getting close to 100% burnt. Of course, since the pressure appears to be below SAAMI max, you might try them and get some chrono numbers in order to refine the QL numbers. But if it were me, I'd look at a lighter load to get chrono numbers then make burn rate adjustments in QL to get a better idea the numbers I can work with.
Jager
Gold $$ Contributor
Sorry, but those two loads you posted look pretty sketchy.
Looks like you measured your actual case volume, bullet length (which the QL database sometimes gets wrong), and OAL... which is great, as those are critical to pressure.
QuickLoad is a profoundly helpful program, but it doesn't automatically identify appropriate powders. It has an interesting and helpful feature under Options --> Setup Propellant Table that allows you to set certain parameters and then it will cross-reference every powder in its database that meet those parameters. For example, setting max chamber pressure at 56,500 psi (1000 under SAAMI max) and maximum charge density of 104% will give you the results below (only partially listed).
Pay attention to things like percentage of propellant burnt... declining percentages suggest not-so-great powders for the application you're contemplating using them in.
Until you have enough handloading experience to know what burn-rate powders work best with which calibers and which bullet weights... the fastest way to ID an appropriate powder is to crack open a couple of the old-school loading manuals that you undoubtedly already have.
The most powerful use for QuickLoad, IMO, is marrying it with quality chronograph data. Once you've done that, and calibrated it to your rifle and powder, you can model uncannily accurate predictions of velocity and pressure long before you ever head to the loading bench.
Looks like you measured your actual case volume, bullet length (which the QL database sometimes gets wrong), and OAL... which is great, as those are critical to pressure.
QuickLoad is a profoundly helpful program, but it doesn't automatically identify appropriate powders. It has an interesting and helpful feature under Options --> Setup Propellant Table that allows you to set certain parameters and then it will cross-reference every powder in its database that meet those parameters. For example, setting max chamber pressure at 56,500 psi (1000 under SAAMI max) and maximum charge density of 104% will give you the results below (only partially listed).
Pay attention to things like percentage of propellant burnt... declining percentages suggest not-so-great powders for the application you're contemplating using them in.
Until you have enough handloading experience to know what burn-rate powders work best with which calibers and which bullet weights... the fastest way to ID an appropriate powder is to crack open a couple of the old-school loading manuals that you undoubtedly already have.
The most powerful use for QuickLoad, IMO, is marrying it with quality chronograph data. Once you've done that, and calibrated it to your rifle and powder, you can model uncannily accurate predictions of velocity and pressure long before you ever head to the loading bench.
Forum Boss
Administrator
QuickLoad is a very useful and excellent program. But in choosing a powder, you will probably be better off first asking people who actually shoot the cartridge and find out what powders work with that cartridge and your bullet choices. Then use the features of the program to figure loads, and estimate load PSI at particular Cartridge overall lengths with particular projectiles. But keep in mind that you may still need to customize a couple variables to get optimal predictive value.
Forum Boss
Administrator
Every QuickLoad User should read this comprehensive, detailed article I wrote about the software. It's a few years old, but all the main points still apply.
I believe this is the most extensive discussion of QuickLoad to be found on the internet.
QuickLOAD Reloading Software Article
Here is a small sample -- the Reasons to use and Power User Tips.
Why You Need This Program
With QuickLOAD, you can easily get fairly reliable estimates of how pressures change as ambient temperatures rise, or as you alter seating depth. The temp function alone, though simplistic, is worth the price of the program–you won’t be caught at a match with ammo that worked great in the spring but was too hot for summer (see above). And you may be surprised at how significant a .020″ change in seating depth can be. Quickload also allows you to predict the effect of changes in barrel length. We checked this against actual field reports for 26″ to 30″ 6BR barrel lengths, and the velocity increases ascribed to increased barrel length seem pretty accurate.
Being able to quickly plug in a dozen different bullets and get a “ball-park” load is a great time-saver. The program also shows “shank depth”, so if you know your case overall length, that will tell you how much bearing surface is actually in the case. We found this very useful in working with the Berger 95 which has a very short bearing surface. We were able to adjust the seating depth so we had a reasonable amount of shank in the neck while still reaching into the rifling as desired.
Power-User Tips–Getting the Most from QuickLOAD
1. Always weigh and measure your bullets. We’ve found that a significant number of bullet profiles are slightly off, sometimes even as to caliber. Many of these errors get fixed with software updates, but you should not presume that the bullet data is 100% correct. Before you start loading, measure those bullets! JeffVN told us: “I’m running version 3.0.1 or something like that. Mine does not have the 6BR improved. Also mine did not have the boat tail details for any of these Lapua scenar 30 cal (167 or 155) or the 6.5mm (123 gr or the 139) bullets. It had them all listed as flat butts. I inputted the proper details, as best I could measuring with my calipers. It did make a difference [as to] pressure and velocity (not huge, but a 0.1-0.2 grain, depending upon seating depth and powder choice).”
2. Always measure ACTUAL case capacity. If your cartridge capacity is less than QuickLOAD assumes, you can get pressure problems with loads identified as safe. Remember different brands of brass may vary in case capacity by up to three grains (with the larger cartridges). Don’t even think of applying QuickLOAD-generated recipes until you’ve measured the ACTUAL case capacity of your brass. Montana Marine concurs: “The biggest tip I would give is to measure the water capacity of your fire-formed cases, and enter that data into the equation. Before doing that, my chrono’d velocities were typically 20-40 fps slower than calculated. After entering in actual water capacity, results are generally within 10 fps of calculations. For example, the default water capacity of the 30-06 is 68.2gr. My fire-formed Remington cases hold 70.5gr, fire-formed Norma cases hold 73.7gr. That is a significant difference.”
3. In summer and winter, use QuickLOAD’s temperature function. The default is 70 degrees. That may be a good year-round average for California, but most parts of North America will be much colder in the winter and much hotter in the summer.
4. With moly-coated bullets, be sure to check the box for “friction proofing.”
5. Continue to follow normal, safe reloading practices. Even if QuickLOAD tells you 33.0 grains of Brand X “Ultra-Powder” is safe in your gun, don’t even think of using that charge if the Brand X’s current load map says that a max charge (with your choice of bullet) is 30 grains. Always start 10% low and work up. In general, we’ve found QuickLOAD’s pressure predictions to be reasonable (so long as you get the seating depth and case capacity right). However in the case of Berger 88s and Varget, we were not able to get anywhere near predicted max velocities before we saw some pressure signs. Remember, every barrel is different.
6. Compensate for bullets seated into the lands. QuickLOAD’s default values are based on bullets that do NOT engage the lands. If you are jamming your bullets, you should modify the “Shot Start Initiation Pressure” value. The pop-up help says you should add 7200 psi to the 3625 psi default start pressure for jacketed bullets. There is probably research to support adding 7200 psi as a general average for rifle cartridges, but we’ve observed that this corrected 10,825 psi level seems too high for the 6BR case with custom barrels. But you should add some amount of correction. We suggest setting start pressure at 5000-6500 psi initially for jammed bullets.
DON'T STOP HERE! Read the WHOLE ARTICLE:
I believe this is the most extensive discussion of QuickLoad to be found on the internet.
QuickLOAD Reloading Software Article
Here is a small sample -- the Reasons to use and Power User Tips.
Why You Need This Program
With QuickLOAD, you can easily get fairly reliable estimates of how pressures change as ambient temperatures rise, or as you alter seating depth. The temp function alone, though simplistic, is worth the price of the program–you won’t be caught at a match with ammo that worked great in the spring but was too hot for summer (see above). And you may be surprised at how significant a .020″ change in seating depth can be. Quickload also allows you to predict the effect of changes in barrel length. We checked this against actual field reports for 26″ to 30″ 6BR barrel lengths, and the velocity increases ascribed to increased barrel length seem pretty accurate.
Being able to quickly plug in a dozen different bullets and get a “ball-park” load is a great time-saver. The program also shows “shank depth”, so if you know your case overall length, that will tell you how much bearing surface is actually in the case. We found this very useful in working with the Berger 95 which has a very short bearing surface. We were able to adjust the seating depth so we had a reasonable amount of shank in the neck while still reaching into the rifling as desired.
Power-User Tips–Getting the Most from QuickLOAD
1. Always weigh and measure your bullets. We’ve found that a significant number of bullet profiles are slightly off, sometimes even as to caliber. Many of these errors get fixed with software updates, but you should not presume that the bullet data is 100% correct. Before you start loading, measure those bullets! JeffVN told us: “I’m running version 3.0.1 or something like that. Mine does not have the 6BR improved. Also mine did not have the boat tail details for any of these Lapua scenar 30 cal (167 or 155) or the 6.5mm (123 gr or the 139) bullets. It had them all listed as flat butts. I inputted the proper details, as best I could measuring with my calipers. It did make a difference [as to] pressure and velocity (not huge, but a 0.1-0.2 grain, depending upon seating depth and powder choice).”
2. Always measure ACTUAL case capacity. If your cartridge capacity is less than QuickLOAD assumes, you can get pressure problems with loads identified as safe. Remember different brands of brass may vary in case capacity by up to three grains (with the larger cartridges). Don’t even think of applying QuickLOAD-generated recipes until you’ve measured the ACTUAL case capacity of your brass. Montana Marine concurs: “The biggest tip I would give is to measure the water capacity of your fire-formed cases, and enter that data into the equation. Before doing that, my chrono’d velocities were typically 20-40 fps slower than calculated. After entering in actual water capacity, results are generally within 10 fps of calculations. For example, the default water capacity of the 30-06 is 68.2gr. My fire-formed Remington cases hold 70.5gr, fire-formed Norma cases hold 73.7gr. That is a significant difference.”
3. In summer and winter, use QuickLOAD’s temperature function. The default is 70 degrees. That may be a good year-round average for California, but most parts of North America will be much colder in the winter and much hotter in the summer.
4. With moly-coated bullets, be sure to check the box for “friction proofing.”
5. Continue to follow normal, safe reloading practices. Even if QuickLOAD tells you 33.0 grains of Brand X “Ultra-Powder” is safe in your gun, don’t even think of using that charge if the Brand X’s current load map says that a max charge (with your choice of bullet) is 30 grains. Always start 10% low and work up. In general, we’ve found QuickLOAD’s pressure predictions to be reasonable (so long as you get the seating depth and case capacity right). However in the case of Berger 88s and Varget, we were not able to get anywhere near predicted max velocities before we saw some pressure signs. Remember, every barrel is different.
6. Compensate for bullets seated into the lands. QuickLOAD’s default values are based on bullets that do NOT engage the lands. If you are jamming your bullets, you should modify the “Shot Start Initiation Pressure” value. The pop-up help says you should add 7200 psi to the 3625 psi default start pressure for jacketed bullets. There is probably research to support adding 7200 psi as a general average for rifle cartridges, but we’ve observed that this corrected 10,825 psi level seems too high for the 6BR case with custom barrels. But you should add some amount of correction. We suggest setting start pressure at 5000-6500 psi initially for jammed bullets.
DON'T STOP HERE! Read the WHOLE ARTICLE:
Last edited:
Jager
Gold $$ Contributor
That was a great article, Forum Boss. I wish more people would try QuickLoad. It profoundly changed my approach to handloading. It is a tool of remarkable power.
If I could emphasize one thing... it would be to reiterate the point you make about measuring actual case capacity. Many people don't realize how dramatic a couple grains difference makes on chamber pressure.
The other thing I'd add is to have a settled "system" in place when one brings QuickLoad to bear. Something as simple as changing a neck bushing, or going from a wet lube to a dry lube on a mandrel used for neck sizing... will change neck tension and that will change chamber pressure. Handloading is a rich and fertile arena for trying different things, but QuickLoad results tend to be far more accurate once all those details are nailed down.
Once it is, once everything is dialed-in, QuickLoad's ability to model pressure is a stunning leap forward.
I haven't seen a conventional pressure sign in a very long time, despite spending much time in and around SAAMI max, on many different guns. Knowing where the limit is without having to first fall over the edge is... priceless.
If I could emphasize one thing... it would be to reiterate the point you make about measuring actual case capacity. Many people don't realize how dramatic a couple grains difference makes on chamber pressure.
The other thing I'd add is to have a settled "system" in place when one brings QuickLoad to bear. Something as simple as changing a neck bushing, or going from a wet lube to a dry lube on a mandrel used for neck sizing... will change neck tension and that will change chamber pressure. Handloading is a rich and fertile arena for trying different things, but QuickLoad results tend to be far more accurate once all those details are nailed down.
Once it is, once everything is dialed-in, QuickLoad's ability to model pressure is a stunning leap forward.
I haven't seen a conventional pressure sign in a very long time, despite spending much time in and around SAAMI max, on many different guns. Knowing where the limit is without having to first fall over the edge is... priceless.
I want to thank everyone for the input! I have read through the review article by Accurate Shooter and have that book marked. I do understand how critical case capacity is as well as OAL and other parameters mentioned. Information from other loaders shows QuickLoads default case capacity of 32.2 is 1 to 1.5 grains above what loaders are seeing. So advice to measure my formed cases is spot on. Wilson Combat developed the cartridge and the go to powder is mostly the CFE-BLK with moderate loads being compressed. They developed most all the load data before some powder manufactures released theirs which follows suite for powder recommendations. My attached recipes were mainly for fact gathering and what other folks looked for in choosing powders. All is good advice! I am "patiently" waiting for my new barrel so I can get accurate data to make best use of QuickLoad. I have run some numbers for my 6BR and 308 which come out pretty close but more tweaking is needed so I feel with the suppport I am getting here I will get much better. From my limited experience with it I agree it is a great tool but bears careful attention to input information. Comparing it with reloading manuals is good advice also. I will have many more questions and everyones input is invaluable to me!
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