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Quickload info needed for 2000-MR and 4000-MR

I did a search and saw where this was asked in 2016. Now in 2020, was hoping someone had the values (it's still not in the latest update) or is their an equivalent powder that is being used to get reliable load data? I've seen a member going by the name Alliant Reloader, or possibly Alliant Powder, post on this site before. Assuming they represent the company, and maybe they have the info needed.

Thanks in advance for any info.
 
rbose,

Use VV N-550 as a proxy for PP 2000-MR. Work up and you'll usually get about 50-75 f/s more velocity at similar pressures. Alliant says they cannot provide the data for the PP series powders since they are produced by another company and that company won't let them publish the necessary data.

HTH,
DocBII
 
I did a search and saw where this was asked in 2016. Now in 2020, was hoping someone had the values (it's still not in the latest update) or is their an equivalent powder that is being used to get reliable load data? I've seen a member going by the name Alliant Reloader, or possibly Alliant Powder, post on this site before. Assuming they represent the company, and maybe they have the info needed.

Thanks in advance for any info.

DocBII has the story correct r bose, although I'm not sure about the N550 approach.
The supplier is General Dynamics and they have refused to generate the required data for the Power Pro(TM) powders because they need to be exported to Germany for Quickload.
I will recheck with GD-OTS again, but I'm not sure the outcome will be different.
Sorry about the lack of inputs for these powders, but I have refused to estimate the required parameters without data.
Thanks,
Paul
 
DocBII has the story correct r bose, although I'm not sure about the N550 approach.
The supplier is General Dynamics and they have refused to generate the required data for the Power Pro(TM) powders because they need to be exported to Germany for Quickload.
I will recheck with GD-OTS again, but I'm not sure the outcome will be different.
Sorry about the lack of inputs for these powders, but I have refused to estimate the required parameters without data.
Thanks,
Paul


Paul thanks for your reply. Any info you can get a hold of and pass on would be greatly appreciated.

Robert
 
My 6SLR uses the same exact load (43gr.) of 4831 and 4000MR. So I would say that they are very similar although some charts show 4000MR to be a tad slower. Can't help on the 2000MR. http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2020-burn-rate-chart.pdf

Sir thanks for the info. But, look at IMR's recently released burn rate chart (Nov 2019). It completely contradicts Accurate's burn chart putting 4000MR way up the list as a faster powder. Faster than Reloader 19, 17, 16, and only 5 slots down from 2000MR. My confusion about these powders deepens.
 
rbose,

Use VV N-550 as a proxy for PP 2000-MR. Work up and you'll usually get about 50-75 f/s more velocity at similar pressures. Alliant says they cannot provide the data for the PP series powders since they are produced by another company and that company won't let them publish the necessary data.

HTH,
DocBII
Great response from Aliant guys !!
The best of all in future don't shop anymore from them and the cut go home together
 
https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2020-burn-rate-chart.pdf

Paul I'm confused looking at the recently released (Nov-19) burn rate chart from IMR putting 4000MR as being a faster powder than RL-19, 17, and 16. And, 4000MR just a few slots slower than 2000MR. Any thoughts?


Robert,
It is not my place to comment on Hodgdon's burn rate chart.
They did not ask for, or receive any input from me on it.
I would contact them about that if you are interested. (It may be a typo.)
Shoot well,
Paul
 
DocBII has the story correct r bose, although I'm not sure about the N550 approach.
The supplier is General Dynamics and they have refused to generate the required data for the Power Pro(TM) powders because they need to be exported to Germany for Quickload.
I will recheck with GD-OTS again, but I'm not sure the outcome will be different.
Sorry about the lack of inputs for these powders, but I have refused to estimate the required parameters without data.
Thanks,
Paul

Data does not need to be exported to Germany or elsewhere. If you publish it here then anyone who has Quickload can input themselves. I think General Dynamics is giving you the run around for some other reason. I use plenty of 2000MR and I use Quickload, providing the data as a customer service would only help business and sales. But I worked for a large company, and understand their BS policies as their executives know best!
 
Robert,
It is not my place to comment on Hodgdon's burn rate chart.
They did not ask for, or receive any input from me on it.
I would contact them about that if you are interested. (It may be a typo.)
Shoot well,
Paul


Paul I'm not trying to start any bickering about the PP series of powders. I use both 2000MR and 4000MR in several cartridges and recently started using Quickload. That prompted me to ask my original question in the first post.

So let me ask a question this way, Where does Alliant Powder put the 2000MR and 4000MR in line of burn rate compared to the reloader series? At one time I was told 2000MR was approximately the ball equivalent of R-15 and 4000MR was the ball equivalent of R-22 in burn rate. Any truth to that or did I misunderstand? If that is incorrect, please let me know where they fall compared to the others.

Thank for all your help,

Robert
 
Robert,
As you probably realize, the bulk "burn rate" of propellants is heavily dependent on the application, but generally Power Pro 2000-MR is slower than Reloder(R) 15 and faster burning than Reloder 16. Power Pro 4000-MR's burn speed is close to Reloder 19. Again, the relative burn speeds will shift some, depending on the application and lot to lot.
I hope that helps.
Paul
 
The burn rate of a given powder is only one input that is important for obtaining accurate and useful predictions with QuickLoad. For example, the energy content of a given powder is also important. Double-base powders will typically give significantly higher velocity with a given cartridge/bullet combination than a single-base powder of comparable burn rate because they tend to be much higher energy powders. The bottom line is that if the manufacturer is unwilling to provide the information, the best you can do is improvise.

Along that line, users of QuickLoad will be familiar with the fact that the initial input data for various powders, bullets, and cartridges all come from factory presets in pull-down menus. The key here is to remember that it is simply not feasible for Neco to provide different powder data for every possible cartridge in which it might be used. Yet factors such as cartridge volume and shape, bullet weight and design, etc., can have a very significant impact on the outputs QuickLoad provides. For example, a powder burn rate can change noticeably depending on pressure, which is heavily dependent on the specific cartridge and bullet weight loaded. Instead of trying to cover an almost unlimited number of possibilities, Neco has setup pull-down menus for each powder with some factory-preset data, then allowed the user to modify the data files so that the outputs better match their actual measured results (i.e. velocity with a given charge weight).

One potential solution for missing powder data files would be to select an existing powder file with a similar burn rate and energy profile to the powder you want to create a new file, then modify the burn rate until your predicted velocity with a given charge weight exactly matches the average measured velocity. Without having the missing powder data, you can only make an educated guess as to which one to actually choose, but a good place to start is by selecting a powder with a similar burn rate range, and one that is either single-base or double-base, as the case may be. The results of this approach will not be perfect; you're making some assumptions that may not be correct, or may only be partially correct. Then again, even the best QuickLoad files made using all the appropriate inputs are not perfect, and must often be tweaked regularly as external conditions and/or the load itself change. Nonetheless, it may be a way to obtain some useful data from QuickLoad in the absence of having the actual powder data.

It's worth noting that even where we have the actual powder file for a given powder, QuickLoad outputs are only predictions. In terms of predicting the actual results we measure, sometimes the predictions are very good, sometimes mediocre, and sometimes they can be off by a significant amount. As is usually the case, the better the inputs, the closer to reality the prediction will be. If I were using PP2000MR or PP4000MR, I would certainly give this approach a try, because you really have nothing to lose as long as you treat the prediction with proper caution/skepticism, until you have measurable data to determine how well it matches what you actually observe. The other nice thing about doing these sorts of in silico exercises is that if one particular powder chosen to start creating your own file to mimic a powder for which there is no file available doesn't seem to match up very well, you can always pick another one.
 
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