Quick Load - settle a discussion

[6BRinNZ]

Would someone be prepared to run some quickload numbers to settle a discussion for me?

TIA

 

[Jammer Six]

You're asking for the results of a copywrited program.

If you need the results of the program, pay your own way. Buy the program.

 

[Mozella]

You're asking for the results of a copywrited program.

If you need the results of the program, pay your own way. Buy the program.

Good advice, but don't be in a hurry. I ordered mine last week and paid extra for priority mail expecting to get it in two days, three max. So far.......... nothing. I inquired and was told the CD was "out of stock" but would be shipped soon. WTF? How could a company selling CDs be out of stock?

My later inquiry about the status of my order is being met with complete silence; not what I would call very good customer service. I hope the software, if it ever gets here, is better than the way they handle their orders.

 

[Travelor]

Mozella, you and I are similar in that when I order something I want I do not want to wait. But you will be very happy with the program when you get it. I have not opened a reloading book in the past 4 years as I use QuickLoad to get loading information. And the QuickTarget program that comes with it is VERY accurate.

 

[jray57]

Good advice, but don't be in a hurry. I ordered mine last week and paid extra for priority mail expecting to get it in two days, three max. So far.......... nothing. I inquired and was told the CD was "out of stock" but would be shipped soon. WTF? How could a company selling CDs be out of stock?

My later inquiry about the status of my order is being met with complete silence; not what I would call very good customer service. I hope the software, if it ever gets here, is better than the way they handle their orders.

Think it might have had anything to do with the SHOT show??
I am seriously contemplating getting the program but I would like to see the new IMR powders included.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

What are you trying to figure out?

 

[6BRinNZ]

Thanks guys. There is a trend in FTR to Palma brass which isn't an issue of itself. But guys are latching onto the fact that you can run very high pressures in the brass AND accurate loads. Some are going to the extent that the SRP brass is done after one firing.

I was having a discussion with someone about the inherent dangers of this (expense aside) and wanted to use indicative pressure values as part of that conversation.

Personally I don't like this trend - it isn't healthy for a lot of reasons but if I'm discussing it I want to be talking with more than gut feel.

 

[Changeling]

6BR in NZ, Very well said. Unfortunately I think it's falling on deaf ears.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I think the applicability here would hinge on whether your statement, "But guys are latching onto the fact that you can run very high pressures in the brass AND accurate loads" is really a fact, or may only be true in certain cases. In my hands, loads at or well above MAX pressure often don't behave well at all. Typically, that is where I expect to start seeing major velocity excursions due to the high pressure and its inconsistent effect on burn rate and velocity. Of course, that may be a powder-specific phenomena. If a significant proportion of individuals that attempt this don't reliably get good precision to go with the high velocity, I'd expect this approach will be self-limiting.

On the other hand, if large numbers of people have figured out a way to reliably run these very high pressure loads and reproducibly get good precision, it's potentially a big problem. Matches in some locales have put upper limits on velocity for certain types of competitions. I'd imagine this loading philosophy might prompt that kind of a response due to its unsafe nature.

As I've stated here before, I personally don't want to be remembered as "that guy at the range...you know, the one with the eye patch that pulls the trigger with his hook".

ok - what is a max pressure number - is that a physical measurement or some tell tale sign? (for arguments sake)

 

[Nvreloader]

6BRinNZ

What?????
Brass/case name,
H2O capacity,
Bullet and weight,
Powder type/amount,
Case length,
COA Loaded length,
Bbl length,
Temp shot at,

Would be a great help.

Tia,
Don

ok - what is a max pressure number - is that a physical measurement or some tell tale sign? (for arguments sake)

 

[Changeling]

6BRinNZ, It's impossible to give a max pressure number due to the multitude of different firearms in the world. Some made for more pressure then others, some in new condition, some a complete mess!
I guess what you are looking for is a top pressure action used in competition like the Bats and others like it made to very close tolerances and the best steels. These type actions still are not recommended for crazy high pressures!
The limiting factor is the cartridge case, it's a gasket between the powder and steel of the barrel and action.

Lapua make a cartridge case called the 6.5 x 47 Lapua that is supposed to be rated around 60,000 psi, I've heard some are pushing this towards 70,000 psi or higher! Unfortunately it will probably get someone in trouble one day.

Running out of time and have to go now, typing with one eye and a hook takes a lot out of a person.

Strongly suggest you learn more about pressures and firearms.

 

[Rtheurer]

I can tell you that 63,000 PSI Chamber Pressure in a Large Primer brass is Still 63,000 PSI Chamber Pressure in a Small Primer brass. Sometimes the small Primer needs a boost in Powder Charge because the Primer itself. Getting the same Velocity from the same barrel with the same lot number of powder and Same lot number of Bullets using the same bullet seating depth and neck tension will result in the same Chamber Pressure and the same Pressure curve.

 

[6BRinNZ]

6BRinNZ, It's impossible to give a max pressure number due to the multitude of different firearms in the world. Some made for more pressure then others, some in new condition, some a complete mess!
I guess what you are looking for is a top pressure action used in competition like the Bats and others like it made to very close tolerances and the best steels. These type actions still are not recommended for crazy high pressures!
The limiting factor is the cartridge case, it's a gasket between the powder and steel of the barrel and action.

Lapua make a cartridge case called the 6.5 x 47 Lapua that is supposed to be rated around 60,000 psi, I've heard some are pushing this towards 70,000 psi or higher! Unfortunately it will probably get someone in trouble one day.

Running out of time and have to go now, typing with one eye and a hook takes a lot out of a person.

Strongly suggest you learn more about pressures and firearms.

I only used the term max pressure as that was what was stated in the post..i.e. one persons max is not anothers max I know this but it is the point. If you re read my original post it was asking for actual numbers.

For instance if you have a custom action with no ejector and you have what you consider an accurate load and "no pressure signs" (this can be argued) but the brass only lasts one firing and you decide that is acceptable - is this safe or not?

NV - your missing the point.

Gstaylorg - thanks for the reply - I understand what your saying - but I don't think the internet is the best place to discuss. - edited to say I didn't get the warning about your last post coming thru and posted mine prior.

I'll leave the thread as is as it looks like it will get silly and is off topic.

Thanks all.

 

[savagedasher]

Think it might have had anything to do with the SHOT show??
I am seriously contemplating getting the program but I would like to see the new IMR powders included.

I can tell you that 63,000 PSI Chamber Pressure in a Large Primer brass is Still 63,000 PSI Chamber Pressure in a Small Primer brass. Sometimes the small Primer needs a boost in Powder Charge because the Primer itself. Getting the same Velocity from the same barrel with the same lot number of powder and Same lot number of Bullets using the same bullet seating depth and neck tension will result in the same Chamber Pressure and the same Pressure curve.

Totally agree and some brass give up at 63,000 and others don't. Lapua is noted to stand more press then others. . Larry

 

[ebb]

I once shot archery comps, they had a speed problem and guys were blowing up bows due to not enough arrow weight and too may lbs of limb weight. Now all bows have in ASA and IBO have a rule that limits speed and you have to shoot through a chronograph. When someone blows up a gun on the line and the owner or others are hurt this will come to F class. I doubt anyone will see this coming and do some thing in advance.

 

[Rtheurer]

The MAX pressure listed for a specific cartridge are not dependent on powder/bullet/primer/etc, only the load specific predictions will need those values. For the purpose of using QL, the specific cartridge is enough. Depending on the cartridge, there may be more than one choice as different entities have listed their own "MAX" values. For example, there are three entries for .308 Win: SAAMI, CIP, and GIC (?). The values run from ~53K psi to ~62K psi. I use the ~62K spec as MAX for custom bolt rifles. I generally find that loads running up near MAX in the ~61-62K psi range will loosen the primer pockets of standard .308 Win brass after 3-5 firings. I'm willing to accept that the loads you mentioned were way over 62K psi if they were trashing Palma brass pockets in one firing.

In my hands, when the predicted pressure for .308 Win with powders such as H4895 and IMR4895 reached the 63-64K psi range, velocity became very erratic, with high ES/SD. I typically never go that high on purpose, but have occasionally found out after shooting a charge weight test series that highest load or two likely reached that neighborhood. Precision was generally poor and the erratic velocity leads me to believe the loads would have performed poorly at LR, even if they had grouped well at 100 yd. It is possible that the folks you're referring to may have gone high enough that they've reached the next higher OBT (accuracy) node. If so, I can tell you that the pressures are way up there for them to have done that. Personally, I would never even attempt going that high knowingly. But obviously, a few extra points in a match mean more to some than to me.

Right on the money!!

 

[savagedasher]

QL will tell you to add pressure when you're close or in the lands . The added pressure can be 5000 psi depending on the case and bullet . 020 jump I don't add .010 I add 1000 psi .010 and in I add 3000 psi and sometimes my primers tell me that isn't enough. Larry

 

[dmoran]

QL will tell you to add pressure when you're close or in the lands . The added pressure can be 5000 psi depending on the case and bullet . 020 jump I don't add .010 I add 1000 psi .010 and in I add 3000 psi and sometimes my primers tell me that isn't enough. Larry

Really..... you never new nothing about pressure offset two month ago (until I told you).
But now you state your adjusting pressure offset, and of your own devised scale to how much on top of it... lol
Yep, that is an aspect about QL; you can manipulate it to read about any numbers you want. Right or wrong is a different story.
But it all sounds convincing good on the internet.

 

[savagedasher]

Really..... you never new nothing about pressure offset two month ago (until I told you).
But now you state your adjusting pressure offset, and of your own devised scale to how much on top of it... lol
Yep, that is an aspect about QL; you can manipulate it to read about any numbers you want. Right or wrong is a different story.
But it all sounds convincing good on the internet.

You never told me nothing I didn't know for years I have had and used QL 12 plus years. I don't adjust anything . Whenever I load in or near the lands I use 4000 psi Safety factor. Larry

 

[dmoran]

You never told me nothing I didn't know for years I have had and used QL 12 plus years. I don't adjust anything.

Yep... and is why your outputs are calibrated to nothing, and are "guess-ti-mates" at best.
Oh, but they make a post sound more convincing on the internet...lol