Question about large pistol primers

[Maverick7508]

So, I have seen threads on here talking about pistol cartridges with no powder retaining their bullet when the primer is ignited, even when uncrimped. My question is, does this work for Large Pistol Primers like say a .44 remington magnum cartridge? I have not been able to get into reloading myself to test this, but I would like to know.

 

[dellet]

I would not count on any bullet to still be in the case with any primer. Some of the gallery 22 rimfire loads are primer only.

I can confirm that a 100 grain .257 bullet in a 256 magnum fired in a 357 with only a primer is good for close to 150 yards and a 230 grain 308 bullet dropped in a 45 acp case is good for about 100.

It’s interesting to see people’s faces when they see just how powerful “only a primer” is.

The only way the bullet stays in the case is if the chamber/barrel stops it. An inch down the barrel is not uncommon. If you’re lucky it’s only goes far enough to the jam the next round so it cant be fired

 

[SSL]

So, I have seen threads on here talking about pistol cartridges with no powder retaining their bullet when the primer is ignited, even when uncrimped. My question is, does this work for Large Pistol Primers like say a .44 remington magnum cartridge? I have not been able to get into reloading myself to test this, but I would like to know.

Years ago I had a cast 250-grain .44 bullet lodge between the cylinder and forcing cone. It effectively stopped cylinder movement. No powder, of course, and only a standard primer (non-magnum...as recommended by Alliant for 2400 powder). I also once had a powder-less .45 ACP 200-grain cast bullet lodge about an inch and a half into the barrel when. Both incidents were caused by powder-bridging in the measure that went undetected. Only two times it happened and both bullets were crimped. Bottom line: If it sounds and feels wrong, stop and check that barrel!

 

[Maverick7508]

Okay. I was curious about the feasibility of a round dislodging and getting into the forcing cone(but not obstructing the cylinder) on a .44 revolver. I had seen people discussing rounds with no powder before( https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/primer-output-pushes-bullets-into-rifling.3966017/ ) but they didn't mention any experience with .44 magnums in this regard.

Also, would a lodged round be able to be dislodged by firing? Say a blank in a non-gas sealed revolver like a standard ruger or s&w .44? I was unsure about gas pressure loss due to the gap between cylinder and forcing cone.

 

[M-61]

Also, would a lodged round be able to be dislodged by firing?

If I'm reading this correctly you want to know about firing a weapon with an obstructed barrel?

 

[Maverick7508]

If I'm reading this correctly you want to know about firing a weapon with an obstructed barrel?

Yes, although I should clarify discharging the weapon with a blank to clear the obstruction, specifically in a non-sealing(ie 99% of them) revolver.

 

[dellet]

Sounds like you’re asking if this really happened.

On March 31, 1993, Lee was filming a scene in The Crow where his character is shot and killed by thugs.[97] In the scene, Lee's character walks into his apartment and discovers his fiancée being beaten and raped, and a thug played by actor Michael Massee fires a Smith & Wesson Model 629 .44 Magnum revolver at Lee's character as he walks into the room.[98]

In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the prop gun (which was a real revolver) was loaded with improperly made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck—a dangerous condition known as a squib load. During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.[99][100]

Brandon Lee - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Maverick7508]

Sounds like you’re asking if this really happened.

Brandon Lee - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Somewhat, yes. The idea of a round getting past the forcing cone but stuck, then fired with lethal velocity on a unsealed chamber always sounded a bit eh, to me. I mean I get that it is possible, but what are the odds?

Also, as someone wanting to get into ammo reloading at some point and owning several .44 magnums, I do have something of a personal interest should I bungle a cartridge.

 

[SSL]

Yes, although I should clarify discharging the weapon with a blank to clear the obstruction, specifically in a non-sealing(ie 99% of them) revolver.

Don't do it! A wood dowel of appropriate size and a mallet (in a verified empty firearm) will dislodge the bullet. The pressure curve of even a blank could well bulge or otherwise damage your barrel...or yourself.

 

[M-61]

I was unsure about gas pressure loss due to the gap between cylinder and forcing cone.

Me too. So my answer is no. No meaning (IMO) horribly unsafe.

 

[No.343]

I had a squib in a S&W 625, 45ACP, revolver. I was using a coated 230 grain, 0.452" diameter bullet. The bullet did not get past the forcing cone and kept the cylinder from turning. Like SSL said above a wooden dowel is a permanent part of my pistol shooting bag. I did not have a mallet, but set the dowel down on a sturdy wooden bench and forced the gun down so the bullet hit the tip of the dowel. After a few reps the bullet was free from the forcing cone and in the cylinder. I wouldn't try to shoot it out. No way. No how.

 

[Maverick7508]

Okay, thanks for the info. So, doing that would likely lead to damaging the weapon, or a catastrophic failure and injury. Then its off my list of potential solutions.

 

[M-61]

I thought this was a hypothetical inquiry.
Thankfully you thought to ask before doing anything.
+1 for you.

 

[XTR]

Every squib I ever saw when I was shooting IPSC the bullet went into the barrel.

 

[divingin]

I had a squib in a S&W 625, 45ACP, revolver. I was using a coated 230 grain, 0.452" diameter bullet. The bullet did not get past the forcing cone and kept the cylinder from turning. Like SSL said above a wooden dowel is a permanent part of my pistol shooting bag. I did not have a mallet, but set the dowel down on a sturdy wooden bench and forced the gun down so the bullet hit the tip of the dowel. After a few reps the bullet was free from the forcing cone and in the cylinder. I wouldn't try to shoot it out. No way. No how.

I think a brass rod is preferable (especially when dealing with a pointed bullet.) I've heard several smiths talk about clearing a bullet in a barrel, with the job made worse by pounding splintered wood between the bullet and bore.

 

[SSL]

I think a brass rod is preferable (especially when dealing with a pointed bullet.) I've heard several smiths talk about clearing a bullet in a barrel, with the job made worse by pounding splintered wood between the bullet and bore.

I would agree that a brass rod would be best for pointed bullets, but the OP specifically mentioned pistol cartridges. I prefer a near-bore filling wooden dowel for such typically flat or round-nosed bullets.

 

[divingin]

I would agree that a brass rod would be best for pointed bullets, but the OP specifically mentioned pistol cartridges. I prefer a near-bore filling wooden dowel for such typically flat or round-nosed bullets.

Some of the reported problems have been round nose 9mm (usually jacketed, I think.)

Might hit up a couple of local smiths and see what they say.

 

[Rsadams]

I saw a guy shoot three squibs in a row before I could stop him.... It was an automatic and all three were lodged in the barrel.... I have had one in my life and had hell getting it out , so no I wouldn't think a blank in a revolver would work to remove it.... Don't even try crap like that , every squib I have seen lodge in the barrel.... Primers pack alot of punch....