This is probably basic stuff to many of you but since I got older - I am 65 - I experience a situation during slow fire prone at 600 yards when I see the front sight and the target very, very well. I can usually keep the holes in the ten ring and the X ring sometimes, and with an occasional 9 but then after 5 or 6 rounds the sight picture sometimes changes and I cannot see clearly and then I fire anyway - (not smart, I know) and the inevitable 7 shows up. So, what should I be doing when the sight picture changes or fades? The other guys don't appear to have the problem. Otto is ten years older and he seems to avoid it, based on his scores. The light sometimes gets darker but not always so I don't have a real excuse other than lack of skill. The equipment is excellent and I know it works - it is just something I am missing. I dearly want to continue shooting with irons and a sling if I can. I dislike bowling, I am a total klutz with any other sport so shooting is it. Besides, there are so many other nice people on the range that I would miss if ever I quit. You would not believe my jubulation when I shoot and the target comes up with the spotter right in the center.
Question about eye sight that fades - during a match
- Thread starter JohnO
- Start date
IMHO, Concentrate on your breathing. Take your time. Close and rest your eyes between shots. Make sure your blood sugar is properly fueled up before you go to your shooting point. I found that a cup of soy/almond milk does wonders for my eyesight for better than an hour.
If there are medical issues that need to be addressed, only a Dr. or Eye specialist can tell you that. Get checked.
That new lens insert for the rear sight aperature may be another big help. Greg
If there are medical issues that need to be addressed, only a Dr. or Eye specialist can tell you that. Get checked.
That new lens insert for the rear sight aperature may be another big help. Greg
I have at times experienced what you are describing. For me, this was with non optical sight in IHMSA silhouette. For some reason the more I focus intently, I find you get "locked into" a sight picture and it's not always clear. I find that by looking away after every shot or every other shot and allowing my eye to refocus(near or far, it didn"t matter to me) and then re aquire the sight picture, my eye seemed to be able to reaquire a sharp sight picture. I'm sure there is a medical explanation for this, but it works for me.
Also, I used(legally) a Merritt non optical adjustable diaphragm which attached to my shooting glasses with the aperature adjusted to allow my eye(approx 18in from rear sight), rear sight, front sight and target to come into clear simultaneous focus(pin hole camera effect).
Also, I used(legally) a Merritt non optical adjustable diaphragm which attached to my shooting glasses with the aperature adjusted to allow my eye(approx 18in from rear sight), rear sight, front sight and target to come into clear simultaneous focus(pin hole camera effect).
The funny thing is, at times I don't experience any issues and I can actually shoot a decent score - by my standards, at least. I am referring to a mid 190's with a handful of X's. I have had the best overall luck with a Tiger front sight globe which is reasonably affordable for me. The plastic inserts work fine but they can be a pain to change mid match with arthritic hands. A person can go broke buying proven doo dads that don't always work.
I'm real close to the 63 mark. Eyes are failing and "arthur" is hitting me hard. I understand the issues you are facing. Especially the financial part. I cant move fast enough to keep up with the squadding/relays so I shoot alone, when I can. Everyone has to do whats best for their situation. Yes I love to shoot, especially love those pinwheels at long range! What a kick! Greg
Make a note of any medications you're using. Ask your doctor if any might have an effect on your eyesight.
(I had a heck of a time last fall when I had to take some OTC allergy stuff to make it thru a weekend. Really screwed up my sight picture! Using a scope, I could focus on the crosshairs but the aiming black would go in and out of focus... mostly out too, WAY out. No problem shooting match sights.)
Be sure you stay properly hydrated during a day on the range. Dehydration can cause all kinds of problems, your vison will be one of the first symptoms.
Blood sugar's already been noted.
Make sure you're not straining your neck or holding your head in an awkward position, whether at a bench or particularly if you shoot prone. Reducing blood flow to the brain, by way of pinching the arteries passing thru your neck, will have an adverse effect on your vision.
Don't stare at the front sight for too long. Move your eye away from the eyepiece slightly so you can change your field of focus to something in the middle distance, maybe five or eight feet away. Don't have to do it long; you're just allowing the muscles in your eye relax a bit.
Do you use something to correct for the front sight focus, like custom shooting glasses or Knobloch's? You may need something if you don't. Trying to keep the front sight focused if you need a slight correction will quickly lead to eye fatigue over an afternoon.
I'm coming up fast on 62 & since I took up long gun shooting a few years ago my eyesight has been the single biggest problem to my shooting what I consider decent scores consistently. It's really, really hard to hit what you can't see!
(I had a heck of a time last fall when I had to take some OTC allergy stuff to make it thru a weekend. Really screwed up my sight picture! Using a scope, I could focus on the crosshairs but the aiming black would go in and out of focus... mostly out too, WAY out. No problem shooting match sights.)
Be sure you stay properly hydrated during a day on the range. Dehydration can cause all kinds of problems, your vison will be one of the first symptoms.
Blood sugar's already been noted.
Make sure you're not straining your neck or holding your head in an awkward position, whether at a bench or particularly if you shoot prone. Reducing blood flow to the brain, by way of pinching the arteries passing thru your neck, will have an adverse effect on your vision.
Don't stare at the front sight for too long. Move your eye away from the eyepiece slightly so you can change your field of focus to something in the middle distance, maybe five or eight feet away. Don't have to do it long; you're just allowing the muscles in your eye relax a bit.
Do you use something to correct for the front sight focus, like custom shooting glasses or Knobloch's? You may need something if you don't. Trying to keep the front sight focused if you need a slight correction will quickly lead to eye fatigue over an afternoon.
I'm coming up fast on 62 & since I took up long gun shooting a few years ago my eyesight has been the single biggest problem to my shooting what I consider decent scores consistently. It's really, really hard to hit what you can't see!
I use an eye patch over my left eye so both are open. I think this is primarily a fatigue issue, actually. I have always been able to see the front sight aperture as well as the target - provided the lighting is good. Using a yellow Knobloch lens does help when the sky is a bit gray which is quite often in Oregon.
I used to have a neck problem until I had injections there as well as therapy and I no longer have that so much. I used to nearly black out shooting prone which was obviously quite dangerous. I had to cut out a small arc from the top of my old shooting jacket.
I used to have a neck problem until I had injections there as well as therapy and I no longer have that so much. I used to nearly black out shooting prone which was obviously quite dangerous. I had to cut out a small arc from the top of my old shooting jacket.
You are using iron sights, correct? If not, please ignore this with my apology.
What you describe is the classic description of eye fatigue due to presbyopia, or age-related stiffness in the lens of the eye. After age 40 or so the lens becomes progressively more stiff, and it becomes impossible for the small ciliary muscle in the eye to change the lens shape to allow focusing on closer objects (in this case, the front sight). The longer you stare at the front sight, the worse the problem - more eye fatigue.
As others have said, dehydration makes the problem worse. Make sure you drink fluids and maintain hydration.
The solution is to use a corrective lens in your eyeglasses or in your rear sight. Depending on the sight radius, you will need a lens correction of + 0.5 to 0.75 more than your normal distance vision correction.
For example, my distance vision correction is +2.00. I need shooting glasses with a right lens correction of +2.75 This is for an AR15 with a sight radius of 21". For a match rifle with a longer barrel and longer sight radius, you might get by with a correction of +.5 or +.625 over and above your usual distance vision correction.
An alternative is using a small lens (+0.5 to +.075 diopter) in the rear sight, along with your usual distance vision eyeglasses.
Either way, this will allow your eye to focus on the front sight with your eye in its relaxed state - no effort by the muscle in your eye required.
Another help is using the smallest rear aperture possible. Use an adjustable rear aperture and dial it down to the smallest size before artifacts appear (looks like spider webs). This will be somewhere around 1.0mm or .040" for most people in bright light conditions. The purpose is to increase the "depth of field", or the range of distances over which objects are in sharp focus. Remember, it is more important to have the front sight in clear focus, compared to the target. You can still align a slightly fuzzy round target in the front sight aperture, as long as your front sight is clearly focused.
For more on this, check out posts by "Shootingsight" in the National Match forum (www.usrifleteams.com). You will have to register to view the forums.
Randy
edited 10:27 pm 2/15/11
What you describe is the classic description of eye fatigue due to presbyopia, or age-related stiffness in the lens of the eye. After age 40 or so the lens becomes progressively more stiff, and it becomes impossible for the small ciliary muscle in the eye to change the lens shape to allow focusing on closer objects (in this case, the front sight). The longer you stare at the front sight, the worse the problem - more eye fatigue.
As others have said, dehydration makes the problem worse. Make sure you drink fluids and maintain hydration.
The solution is to use a corrective lens in your eyeglasses or in your rear sight. Depending on the sight radius, you will need a lens correction of + 0.5 to 0.75 more than your normal distance vision correction.
For example, my distance vision correction is +2.00. I need shooting glasses with a right lens correction of +2.75 This is for an AR15 with a sight radius of 21". For a match rifle with a longer barrel and longer sight radius, you might get by with a correction of +.5 or +.625 over and above your usual distance vision correction.
An alternative is using a small lens (+0.5 to +.075 diopter) in the rear sight, along with your usual distance vision eyeglasses.
Either way, this will allow your eye to focus on the front sight with your eye in its relaxed state - no effort by the muscle in your eye required.
Another help is using the smallest rear aperture possible. Use an adjustable rear aperture and dial it down to the smallest size before artifacts appear (looks like spider webs). This will be somewhere around 1.0mm or .040" for most people in bright light conditions. The purpose is to increase the "depth of field", or the range of distances over which objects are in sharp focus. Remember, it is more important to have the front sight in clear focus, compared to the target. You can still align a slightly fuzzy round target in the front sight aperture, as long as your front sight is clearly focused.
For more on this, check out posts by "Shootingsight" in the National Match forum (www.usrifleteams.com). You will have to register to view the forums.
Randy
edited 10:27 pm 2/15/11
I have tried different strength lenses from Knobloch and that does help. The last time I shot I didn't get to change the lens because I only have the .5 in a clear plastic lens. I will have to play around with different lenses when I have the chance. I looked at the "beer can" front sight and it looks intriguing but I wish it came with a standard dove tail cut. My window for experimenting is pretty short now, unfortunately. I am scheduled for knee replacement on February 21st.
I do appreciate all the comments here.
I do appreciate all the comments here.
John, when you say "irons", are you talking SR or MR?
I had the same problem with the target just fading out with the Palma rifle (I'm 63). I bought the Right Sight for the front, and it is keeping in the game, I was ready to throw in the towel. Doesn't make sense, its just bigger outside, but the apertures are the same, but it works.
If you are talking SR, there is the new Micro Sight for the back that cleans up the front blade. I bought one and seems to work, but I am holding off an opinion until I shoot a match with it. At an indoor practice last week, I put it on my .22rf AR15 upper and shot. All us older guys tried it and they all said it let them see the sight again.
I had the same problem with the target just fading out with the Palma rifle (I'm 63). I bought the Right Sight for the front, and it is keeping in the game, I was ready to throw in the towel. Doesn't make sense, its just bigger outside, but the apertures are the same, but it works.
If you are talking SR, there is the new Micro Sight for the back that cleans up the front blade. I bought one and seems to work, but I am holding off an opinion until I shoot a match with it. At an indoor practice last week, I put it on my .22rf AR15 upper and shot. All us older guys tried it and they all said it let them see the sight again.
I am talking match rifle with an RPA Trakker rear sight. My service rifle days are over now. I had trouble switching back and forth. I never earned any leg points, anyway - my fault, I just never took that seriously. I recently swapped my last old SR upper to Otto for a flat top rear sight. He is selling the Right Sight SR lens now.
I seriously enjoy shooting the match rifle and I have three space guns, two in 6mmRAT. The bolt guns I have got better with the Dave Kiff bolts which made them easier to operate.
I seriously enjoy shooting the match rifle and I have three space guns, two in 6mmRAT. The bolt guns I have got better with the Dave Kiff bolts which made them easier to operate.
John,
I moved to a 30mm front sight with 0.5 eagle eye some time ago, at first I couldn't get the target into focus, it was a fuzzy black/grey ball. Shootingsight at longrange.com gave me some good advice regarding a rear correcting lens affixed via metal frame 3-5mm behind the rear sight. After some experimenting with different optical prescriptions I found the right lens script and got a much clearer sight picture. I am slightly short sighted, I can't read small newsprint, medium distance vision is reasonable but long range fades away. My standard script is -0.25 -.0.5 with 100 degree adjustment for stigmatism. I had to adjust the script by -0.5 to compensate for the +0.5 in the front eagle eye and then all was good. My rear correcting lens is -0.75, -0.5 with 100 deg axis.
Took some time but worth the effort, otherwise I'd be shooting scope only.
Martin
I moved to a 30mm front sight with 0.5 eagle eye some time ago, at first I couldn't get the target into focus, it was a fuzzy black/grey ball. Shootingsight at longrange.com gave me some good advice regarding a rear correcting lens affixed via metal frame 3-5mm behind the rear sight. After some experimenting with different optical prescriptions I found the right lens script and got a much clearer sight picture. I am slightly short sighted, I can't read small newsprint, medium distance vision is reasonable but long range fades away. My standard script is -0.25 -.0.5 with 100 degree adjustment for stigmatism. I had to adjust the script by -0.5 to compensate for the +0.5 in the front eagle eye and then all was good. My rear correcting lens is -0.75, -0.5 with 100 deg axis.
Took some time but worth the effort, otherwise I'd be shooting scope only.
Martin
Pardon the intrusion into a subject I know nothing about.
Can barrel heat cause blurred sight picture using iron sights?
When I first started shooting using high mag scopes I suffered from blurry vision during long strings.
I was aware heat from the barrel could cause mirage. I was convinced that was not what I was expieriencing. Never saw "a boil" just fuzzy sight. Felt like my eyesight was just fading.
Just like John O some days there was no problem. (breezy)
Some days I just had to stop and rest my eyes. (barrel cooled)
Finally discovered the whole time it was just distortion from heat. :-[
Can barrel heat cause blurred sight picture using iron sights?
When I first started shooting using high mag scopes I suffered from blurry vision during long strings.
I was aware heat from the barrel could cause mirage. I was convinced that was not what I was expieriencing. Never saw "a boil" just fuzzy sight. Felt like my eyesight was just fading.
Just like John O some days there was no problem. (breezy)
Some days I just had to stop and rest my eyes. (barrel cooled)
Finally discovered the whole time it was just distortion from heat. :-[
jo191145 said:
Oh my yes it can, and does! That's why many of us use mirage bands above our barrels, whether with irons / match sights or optics.
Mirage is mirage, no matter which side of your muzzle it's on....
Simple as a piece of cardboard stuck on with Velcro, or elastic webbing attached with a wide variety of devices at either end. Pieces of metal or plastic venetian blind works too thought the metal tends to get kinks.
One interesting thing to add to the mix : I shot in an 80 shot offhand match this weekend (I shot a horrible score), but throughout the day I never had the eyesight fade away. I was shooting a typical 6br bolt gun ideally set up for prone shooting. I saw the target perfectly all day, regardless of the cold and the wind and my beat up knees. I was using the Tiger front sight with a 3.6 aperature.
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